Need advice: RPPs vs Compact Primes vs RED Electronic FF35 lenses

[Claus Mueller]

I've got an email from Brian, my RPPs are nearly ready to ship. So I've to decide whether I want to take delivery or not. I'm shooting mostly landscapes in sunny situations but want to do more night shots in future as well. Now I'm using screw-in NDs plus cirular polarizer in daylight situations on my 18-50 RED Zoom. My idea for the future is a more compact DSMC EPIC-X or FF35 configuration for handheld shots but with the "creamy" cine look I've today specially with my favorite RED 300mm Prime.
So now I'm thinking about three options:

1) RPPs
They are fast, sharp, a very good bang for the buck and have a certain cine look. They cover 5k, FF35 only for 50mm+, but the 50mm on FF35 acts like a 35mm on R1. They are huge, heavy and I'll need a Mattebox for the filters. Btw, I'm a bit confused about what Mattebox will fit for my needs. Does the LMB-5 work or do I need the MB20 for polarizers?

2) Zeiss Compact Primes
They are light, around 1kg, very compact, cover FF35. Cost 12k Euro for a 4-lens set, or 21k Euro for the 7-lens set. But they are less cine-stile, so would I really get these "creamy" images from these lenses or are they more on the cold side? They are not fast, but in a Epic-x/FF35 configuration with new Mysterium X they might be fast enough for most situations. I'll need a Mattebox as well.

3) RED Electronic lenses
We don't know much about them. They have auto focus, zoom i.e. 15-25mm, stabilized i.e. 70-200mm, hybrid lenses (cine-stile/stills). I hope they'll be not too heavy. But let's be realistic I don't think we'll see FF35 plus electronic lenses before summer 2010. Mattebox, screw-in filters??

The more I read about S35 vs FF35 the more I think Epic FF35 will fit better for my needs and the electronic lenses would be the best choice, but I've the unpleasant feeling we've to wait until end of 2010 for FF35. I can get the RPPs now, make great images in 4k and later on Epic-X 5k or in crop mode S35 on FF35. But they're HUGE and not really for compact DSMC configurations.

Any advice?

 

[Tom Lowe]

Claus, if your priorities are landscapes, lens speed, portability, screw-on filters, FF35, etc, why not use Canon EF still lenses? As long as you can deal with the focusing issues, Canon has all the glass you need, I would think.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Sounds like the size and weight of the RPPs might not suit your shooting style. Based on the results of the SALT and anecdotal reports, the RPPs are the best bang for the buck in the history of Cine prime lenses. That does not mean they are right for everyone. Tom makes a good point, why not keep your costs and weight down by getting an adapter and using still lenses - Canon and Nikon, not to mention Tokina and a host of others make nice glass.

If you are doing narrative work, need precise rack focus, quick lens changes, easy interface with aks like follow focus, motors and the like then the RPPs are virtually Ultra Primes for a fraction of the cost.

BTW, IMHO that "creamy" look comes from a variety of factors and with the right Canon or Nikon stills lenses and proper treatment of the images after acquisition I think you can get that. YMMV.

Cheers - #19

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've had the RPP's over 2 weeks now... They are big and heavy, especially the 25 and 35. The 50, 85 and 100 are pretty comparable in size and weight to Master Primes. The 25, 35 and presumably the upcoming 18 and other wider lens offerings, are just huge.

That said, I love the way the lenses look and perform. Great value for the money. I think at this point, if you're going to wait for the FF35 RED Electronic Lenses, then you may be waiting for some time. You will want an interim solution. The Arri compact primes look really nice and are going to be smaller and lighter than the RPP's, but still larger than equivalent SLR lenses from what I can tell. I haven't seen them myself other than a couple random photos and a 50mm compact prime being shown in the current video blog entry at AbelCine's site. These lenses are slower than the RPP's and I expect them to perform very similarly to the Zeiss ZF series SLR lenses. Which means they will be great, but will have cine-style mechanics, hopefully less breathing, etc...

For serious landscape work, I would definitely want FF35 or even the EPIC 645 / 617. In your situation, I would put a lot of consideration into Tom's suggestion of the Canon lenses, or perhaps Nikon. Both can be mounted to the RED One and will be usable on the upcoming EPIC and Scarlet cameras.

OTOH, the RPP's are amazing if you don't mind their bulk. I plan to ultimately go FF35 / 645 at some point, but the RPPs fit my needs and camera right now. I'm very pleased with the images they're producing.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

It all comes down to need and finances available to put in to your glass!

If you need glass now or very shortly, then scratch out the RED E.

Personally I don't care for the Arri compact Primes, don't like the design neither the style of the lens construction, to me they fill more like rehoused ZF lenses, but if you like them and the price is right for you then go for it, they are surely very compact, but not near as nice as the DigiPrimes, and way so far away in mechanics to the UP and don't even mention any comparison to the MP.

RPP on the other hand are just to me the absolute show of progress, and yes they are very large lenses in some of their Focal, but they are master pieces, and unless I was to really need the T1.3 of the MP I would never by a MP set, as RPP do fit my needs beautifully, and I love everything about them, design, mechanics, finishing coating, and it just seems unrealistic that RED has been capable of producing such lenses at such great pricing point.

No question hand down RPP, no matter the size, I have been shooting with a 1Ds III/EF 400mm f/2.8L IS combination, hand holding for entire shoots, and yes it is heavy, but very hand holdable, and so will be any Scarlet/Epic RPP combination.

When shooting Landscape Photography I rarely keep the camera off the Sticks so size and weight makes no difference at all.

Canon are great choices of lenses no doubt, I have been a Canon user for almost twenty years, moved from Nikon, and both offer great lenses, Canon has the edge on Portrait and Super Telephoto lenses, but neither have yet come out with a WOW Landscape lens, granted the new EF 14mm f/2.8L II and the EF 24mm f/1.4L II are a great improvement to their first generation lenses but still they struggle to resolve on the 1Ds III, and so do they on the 5D II, even if this lenses are designated "L" they were not really designed for FF, they are however absolutely fantastic on the 1.3 1D bodies and on RED, and they will be good on Scarlett/Epic 2/3 and s35 but on the FF35 they will begin to suffer.

Bottom line is Get the RPP, you will never be sorry you did, at worst just go to the Gym a bit, hehe.

ciao

 

[Tom Lowe]

Ketch, any thoughts on the EF 16-35II? I just sold my Nikon G 14-24 and got this 16-35II. So far, it seems very sharp and nice! Sharper, in fact, than the 14-24, as far as I can tell right now.

 

[Claus Mueller]

Thank you for advice. Seems like Canon or Nikon still lenses would be the best choice for me right now. But I've the feeling that the RPPs would give me the more flexible intermediate solution until the FF35 or 645 arrives because I've some ideas for new projects beside landscapes.
One last question: Do I need the MB20 or does the clamp-on LMB-5 work just fine on RPPs for NDs plus polarizer?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch, any thoughts on the EF 16-35II? I just sold my Nikon G 14-24 and got this 16-35II. So far, it seems very sharp and nice! Sharper, in fact, than the 14-24, as far as I can tell right now.

Hey Tom, the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II definitely is a much better lens then the first gen. as well, it has far better Flair Resistance, less breathing, less CA, Sharper, and also with the new 82mm front element allows for better Light capture, with a result of better distinguished tones from light to dark, you choice was a good one to go with it.

Thank you for advice. Seems like Canon or Nikon still lenses would be the best choice for me right now. But I've the feeling that the RPPs would give me the more flexible intermediate solution until the FF35 or 645 arrives because I've some ideas for new projects beside landscapes.
One last question: Do I need the MB20 or does the clamp-on LMB-5 work just fine on RPPs for NDs plus polarizer?

Welcome.

Do note that the RPP will work just great on the FF35 Scarlet/Epic as they do cover the full 5K range, and I assure you that they cover even more then that, I believe that Jim likes to stay conservative when He says about the Full coverage range of the RPP. The 645 will be an other beast all together as will be so for the 617, other formats with an entire different need of Glass.

ciao

 

[Claus Mueller]

Just sent Brian an email that I'll take delivery of my RPPs. Thanks again for great advice!