Color Correction Resources on a Budget

[David Mullen ASC]

Why is it, that everyone posts in bold numbers camera rental prices as is the price of the DP and DIT services, but when it comes to post prices, everyone runs for ze hills?

Err, maybe because the person posting the information is a DP or DIT? This is a CAMERA user site after all... you'd expect more camera people to be posting here than post people, wouldn't you?

As a DP, I really don't know the prices for post work since I'm not the one paying for it, and usually I don't even get to pick the post place. They send me the resume of the colorist at the facility they picked and ask me if he or she is OK, that's about it.

Getting post prices and publicly quoting them is near impossible these days. It's all negotiated and unless you are seriously bringing a project to them, the sales rep isn't going to quote you prices.

I recommend post places sometimes but usually all I get back from the producer is that the "numbers don't work", etc. So I've been at a number of places, some better than others. Some places claim to do D.I. work but they are really just video post houses without much experience beyond broadcast video.

Money is a funny thing -- I may be told how much is in the budget for my camera or lighting package, but anything beyond that comes under the category of a trade secret. I may be told how many days are budgeted for color-correction, but it's hard to find out how much they are paying for it.

 

[Andrew Kimery]

Just giving the name of a post company, because you like the sound of the name isn't a very good reason to recommend it and doesn't actually help anyone looking for a place to do the finish. Simple search of 411 (http://www.la411.com/Post_Production/) can give you this info. How about someone from your personal experience on a project? Who was the actual colorist? Was he knowledgeable, personable, quick, willing to experiment and collaborate, experienced etc. And, please, enlighten us on the price, yes, the cost of the services. Why is it, that everyone posts in bold numbers camera rental prices as is the price of the DP and DIT services, but when it comes to post prices, everyone runs for ze hills?

Odd. I never thought anyone would recommend a place just because they liked the name. Stuart Ferreyra is the Colorist and co-owner of Timecode Multimedia. I haven't worked w/Stuart on project so I can't comment on prices, but I do know him on a professional level and, IMO, he's talented, knowledgeable about process and is very easy going.


-A

 

[M Most]

Odd. I never thought anyone would recommend a place just because they liked the name. Stuart Ferreyra is the Colorist and co-owner of Timecode Multimedia. I haven't worked w/Stuart on project so I can't comment on prices, but I do know him on a professional level and, IMO, he's talented, knowledgeable about process and is very easy going.

Another alternative - one that is not that uncommon in the current economic climate - is to hire an experienced colorist who understands post production approaches on a freelance basis and, working together, decide on the best path, facility (or facilities), and approach to take the project through. Some colorists have their own gear, some have working relationships with facilities they can use on a four-wall basis. But it is one way of ensuring that the choices made are done on the basis of what's needed for the project, both practically and financially, and not necessarily because of the equipment an individual facility happens to support.

Disclaimer: I sometimes make myself available for such an approach. I know others who do as well.

 

[Shawn Booth]

Let's not forget BIGLU either...

 

[Shawn Booth]

Just giving the name of a post company, because you like the sound of the name isn't a very good reason to recommend it and doesn't actually help anyone looking for a place to do the finish. Simple search of 411 (http://www.la411.com/Post_Production/) can give you this info. How about someone from your personal experience on a project? Who was the actual colorist? Was he knowledgeable, personable, quick, willing to experiment and collaborate, experienced etc. And, please, enlighten us on the price, yes, the cost of the services. Why is it, that everyone posts in bold numbers camera rental prices as is the price of the DP and DIT services, but when it comes to post prices, everyone runs for ze hills?

Well - I started this thread with Dirty Robber. I know Dirty Robber, Charles Haine is the colorist I use. He's a great friend and used to DP, I was his 2nd. Before shooting, he was a gaffer. To say he's talented and knowledgeable is spot on. We speak the same language and have a great relationship both professionally and personally.

Prices very per project.

As far as prices being posted - Please refer to Mr. Mullen's post in this thread concerning it. It's thorough.

You know, sometimes, people just just need to know of the place...
I'm not perfect -

 

[jake blackstone]

Err, maybe because the person posting the information is a DP or DIT? This is a CAMERA user site after all... you'd expect more camera people to be posting here than post people, wouldn't you?

As a DP, I really don't know the prices for post work since I'm not the one paying for it, and usually I don't even get to pick the post place. They send me the resume of the colorist at the facility they picked and ask me if he or she is OK, that's about it.

Getting post prices and publicly quoting them is near impossible these days. It's all negotiated and unless you are seriously bringing a project to them, the sales rep isn't going to quote you prices.

I recommend post places sometimes but usually all I get back from the producer is that the "numbers don't work", etc. So I've been at a number of places, some better than others. Some places claim to do D.I. work but they are really just video post houses without much experience beyond broadcast video.

Money is a funny thing -- I may be told how much is in the budget for my camera or lighting package, but anything beyond that comes under the category of a trade secret. I may be told how many days are budgeted for color-correction, but it's hard to find out how much they are paying for it.

Hello David. It is always great to hear the producer's position, even, if you're not a producer per se. Of coarse, nobody would expect DP to know the price of the post service or even to be involved in the negotiations. But what about the actual producers? How are they supposed to make the determination on the post costs? There are budgets for post, just like anything else and producers have to be able to plan that, as any other aspect of the process. That is what the rate card is for. But these days, unlike in not too distant past, you can't find this info anywhere. It's guarded like a state secret. Red Camera in some ways is changing the way production and post is done. I don't expect Jerry Bruckheimer's line producer to read this blog as this thread is for different kind of producers. Nowadays, at the conclusion of the production, the very same production people would often wear a producer's hat as well. They don't want a DIY and they can't afford to hire Laser Pacific or have $250,000 budget for the DI at EFilms. We are talking about the "budget" post production after all.
I may be an idealist, believing, that transparency and simplicity would benefit everyone. Would it be so terrible, if post houses would just post their rate card? May be decision-making on color grading should be based first and foremost on the colorist's talent, provided one knows the price beforehand and can afforded it:smile5:

 

[jake blackstone]

Odd. I never thought anyone would recommend a place just because they liked the name.

-A

"Leandro - Love the sound of your company. I wanted to let you know i added this info to another thread. Look forward to visiting the space..."
But that's OK, I like the name too:001_tt2:

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I think the big advantage of being mildly competant at coloring is to communicate.

If you grade a shot from each scene you can much easier communicate the look you're after.

When people come to us for VFX they always ask "How much would it cost to..." and it's a question we can never answer. "How good you want it to look. How many shots? What are you willing to shoot around. What will fill the frame?" etc etc..

The more specific the requests the more specific of an answer that can be given.

Time is going to be the single largest determining factor on your budget. The more specific you can be and the less back and forth you need with your colorist the faster it'll get done. And that's true of every step of the low to no budget film maker. Your time is worthless spend as much as humanely possible of it to plan everything out in advance. Have your stack of reference photos printed and ready. Have your shot lists ready. Executing a task is usually much quicker than figuring out what to do.

And this involves communicating in advance. Find out what you can do on your own time to help them work quicker. Anticipate needs they might have before hand and you'll save a lot of time in post.

 

[Shawn Booth]

"Leandro - Love the sound of your company. I wanted to let you know i added this info to another thread. Look forward to visiting the space..."
But that's OK, I like the name too:001_tt2:

Jake - what can I tell you, miscommunication? I meant I liked what the website had to say about the company and their philosophy.......

Also for you - most don't post rate cards publicly, true. One reason might be under cutting. If 4 houses say $400/hour, all another house has to do is say $300/hour.... Remember, the "business" of filmmaking has been around for over a hundred years. It has, and continues, to evolve but a lot of "things" stay the same because they work as is and do not require change to keep going.

"Trade secrets" and paying your dues and a bunch of other complaints by those who aren't reliant on the industry to make a living have their purposes.

 

[jake blackstone]

I think the big advantage of being mildly competant at coloring is to communicate.

If you grade a shot from each scene you can much easier communicate the look you're after.

When people come to us for VFX they always ask "How much would it cost to..." and it's a question we can never answer. "How good you want it to look. How many shots? What are you willing to shoot around. What will fill the frame?" etc etc..

The more specific the requests the more specific of an answer that can be given.

Time is going to be the single largest determining factor on your budget. The more specific you can be and the less back and forth you need with your colorist the faster it'll get done. And that's true of every step of the low to no budget film maker. Your time is worthless spend as much as humanely possible of it to plan everything out in advance. Have your stack of reference photos printed and ready. Have your shot lists ready. Executing a task is usually much quicker than figuring out what to do.

And this involves communicating in advance. Find out what you can do on your own time to help them work quicker. Anticipate needs they might have before hand and you'll save a lot of time in post.

Communication. Yes, a 1000% yes. Recently I got am estimate request for grading a feature.
"I need to do a color grading on the feature. It's 120 minutes long. How much will it cost?" Here is my response. I think it's self explanatory.
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=437478&postcount=10
On a question of quality, we have a little different situation. As far as VFX work goes, you often may need to start with a blank slate. Therefore quality level and effects sophistication of VFX needs to be discussed and priced accordingly, in advance. Color grading is much more straightforward operation. The images are all there and nobody expects us to write a new plugin or a custom shader from scratch. It is much easier to estimate the time needed to finish the color grading project, unlike VFX work. In the past, there were suggestions on this blog, that someone can do necessary work for less, but then you may not get a power window here and there, along with other time saving technics. I couldn't disagree more. All color grading work should be performed at the highest level, regardless of the amount...

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake - what can I tell you, miscommunication? I meant I liked what the website had to say about the company and their philosophy.......

Also for you - most don't post rate cards publicly, true. One reason might be under cutting. If 4 houses say $400/hour, all another house has to do is say $300/hour.... Remember, the "business" of filmmaking has been around for over a hundred years. It has, and continues, to evolve but a lot of "things" stay the same because they work as is and do not require change to keep going.

"Trade secrets" and paying your dues and a bunch of other complaints by those who aren't reliant on the industry to make a living have their purposes.

Hi Shawn.
That's is fine, that you'd mentioned the place, but I would hope, that more recommendations would be based on real experience. I hope I'm not nitpicking here. Well, at least we're talking about budget color finish, :angelsad2:
Now, let me ask you a couple of questions.
Just about every RED camera rental have their daily, weekly, monthly prices right there on the site. With or without DIT or AC. Aren't they all afraid of being underbid? Forget for a second the fact, that once client knows prices, nothing prevents him from coming back and asking to match the lowest price (they do it all the time). No matter what you do, there always will be someone willing to do it cheaper. That's free market. But if you willing to offer better quality, wider selection, better service, more encompassing service, more experience, innovation, etc, then cheapest price would cease to be the sole determining factor. Yes, there always be producers, given a chance, that would go with the cheapest option. But that's life...
Getting a good colorist to work with you and finding out the cost of grading shouldn't be any different from any other service or be that difficult.
If you don't know the price, how do you know, that the place is "budget"?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

"Just say how much you have."

That's an excellent piece of advice. If you're trying to go the 'affordable' route I can almost guarantee you that they'll be giving you a steeply discounted rate. It's really frustrating for someone who is already doing you a favor to have to name a price. Their price is probably out of your range. Just tell them how much you have and let them tell you how interested they are.

"How much? Well probably 10x your budget. I'm not trying to scam you but I'm also not terribly eager to barter when it's already at an enormous discount."

Also try to be flexible on time frames. If you're willing to wait 4 months for your job to fill in their down time they might be far more anxious than if you need it in 2 weeks for a festival.

 

[Shawn Booth]

If you don't know the price, how do you know, that the place is "budget"?

You're correct - But I do know Dirty Robber will work with people and indies. I would hope that any resource listed would also.

Now by budget I do not mean grading a feature for $500... I know most grading sessions cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $400/hour. For me, "budget" means $150-200/hour. But I know others can't afford that and there are those [colorists] out there just starting out on their own who CAN work on tighter budgets.

I am done with the back and forth though as I think the name of this thread says very clearly what this thread is about. The resources are available after all.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER: Dollars figures listed are from my experience and pertain to my projects and should not be quoted for anyone else's purposes.

 

[Leandro Marini]

Wow, can't believe I just discovered this thread. Excellent discussion. My advice : listen to David Mullen. How much more educated can an opinion be?

On self promotion in these forums : counterproductive in terms of the purpose of the forum. Sometimes announcing that you provide a service can help people, though, so being a post house, i just use my best judgement.

On budget-concious color correction : Tricky. The kind of color that you're used to seeing at you local AMC or on your TV requires almost a 1/2 million investemnt inot equipment and years to master. At the same time, there are houses out there that are serving the indie market and serving it well. Want to know the only thing that matters when it comes to picking a budget-friendly color house? THE COLOR. Take a good look at the quality of the work. If you like their work, it doesn't really matter what platform they are working on.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Leandro,

David Mullen is one of the true assets of this forum, but just because he has a defined opinion on a subject does not mean we should follow it as the law, however smart, educated and respected he happens to be. Even as a cinematographer, David rarely operates the camera himself and does not do any loading, etc, so I'm sure he would agree that many an assistant would posses much more experience in the intricacies of camera loading and functioning than he himself does, despite the ASC nomenclature at the end of his signature.

However encyclopedic his knowledge is, David has chosen to focus his energies onto a very particular part of his craft, the one part which happens to matter most. But other people do not function like that, myself being one of those, where rather than putting my focus onto a single area, I prefer to be proficient at several aspects of the business, because that's what makes it enjoyable to me. I work better with "the bigger picture" and plan myself with several considerations pertaining to several aspects of the shot in mind, from staging, to lighting, to shooting, to editing, to color correction. Now, one of the biggest advantages of the digital universe we're immersed in, is color correction, whether you need it, want it, or not, the ability to manipulate the colors on your shots is there. So why not try your hand at it, not to become an expert or claim yourself one, but so that you understand it, because the more you know about the final result, the more educated decisions you can make when creating that result.

I've seen several up and coming creators who've gotten the proverbial first chance, be it a commercial for a small local company or a music video for a new band, whatever, and they've done quite well, but when it comes to spending even $200 an hour for color correction that will take easily 5-6 hours, that's a lot to pay, which is not to say that it isn't worth it, it's just still beyond their possibilities. Keep in mind these people have maxed out their tiny budgets renting a better camera, a light package, a crane, a steadicam, what have you, and then they're left with very little and a mountain to climb to get those images to look their best. What to do? Should they expect a professional colorist or facility to sell their hard earned expertise and equipment dirt cheap? No, they shouldn't, but they can't turn that final product in looking all pale and washed out. Which is where I found myself many years ago and chose to go at it by myself employing all my experience from working on stills with Photoshop, and guess what, the result was not what any pro out there could have turned out, but it was good enough to make a difference, and following the few basic rules (Broadcast safe colors, etc, etc) allowed me to deliver something "boradcastable", so go figure. In the years since, whenever I can afford it, I pay for a colorist and I'm happy to report that many of them have truly elevated my footage to new heights, but whenever I take on smaller jobs, which I do quite a lot as it is the easiest way to stay in the business and still have the time to travel around the world as I like, well, I do most of my own color correction, and have yet to either regret it or embarrass myself.

The irony is that the better an amateur grader I've become, the more I try and allocate funds for a professional one whenever possible. Both schools of thought are not mutually exclusive, and just because David Mullen does not like to mess with DPX sequences in After Effects does not mean that I shouldn't, since I think it will be a while before I can throw a million or two at my own grading suite. In the meantime, whether I do it myself or not, I have yet to encounter a dissatisfied customer...

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Samples

Samples

If any RED user wants to see what can be done with their footage in my system they can send me some unadjusted REDLOG 16bit (48bpp) TIF as mentioned and I can send them back the processed frames and the KCC color correction control file for those shots so they can process the frames if they like the result for free.

Each PC to process the frames would cost less then $500, and the computers for the edit/cc/mix should cost less then $5000 the TB harddrives would cost maybe $20000, so at least basic film like processing of the RED footage should not cost a great deal of money. If you need advanced filters for some shots the TIF frames are out in the open to do anything to with third party programs or filters you can write or have written.

Maybe I should start a post house and charge $5 per shot for grading? If I get some feedback on the sample results it would be something to think about. I could do the CC adjustments and then the user would have the option of me processing the frames on my "render farm" or theirs, if theirs they would not have to pay extra. He could then keep the KCC files and use them to learn what I did for each corrected shot by opening the control screens with that frame loaded.

Although some post houses may be able to use CGI to "fix" messed up footage, for the most part footage that is lite well is not that hard to grade, but like many issues with some projects there is only so much you can do with shots that have bad lighting, bad framing, and are of subjects that look un-interesting. One problem is using too flat lighting, since in grading there is not much you can do to "enhance" the subject in the frame, some people may apply a Vignette to "spot light" the subject, but such things in post are not a substitute for good lighting and using snoots and flags, though they may be a cheeper way to shoot.

I would hope that the cameraman (not limited to DP) would learn from the post house how to avoid shooting problems, although the post house has no economic reason to do such education since they make more money from working with bad fooatge than good. So the cameraman must TRY to learn how to shoot well, and looking at your own footage un-corrected should be a tool in that regard? In other words get it right "in the camera" rather than "fix it in the lab", or "post house" now since it is like a "dry lab" or place doing titles and opticals.

It would be interesting to get maybe 10 "problem", "typical", and "execellent" shots and send them to all the "post houses" mentioned and the post the results of each post houses corrections so everyone could see what they did with the footage side by side. If the "post house" is confident about their work they should volunteer to do such sample works for free to show off to the RED community see what they can do at this time with RED footage.

 

[Shawn Booth]

Dan - I'm curious as to your experience? What have you graded, who have you worked with?

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Experence?

Experence?

Dan - I'm curious as to your experience? What have you graded, who have you worked with?

I have been working with color film for many years, I worked in a now closed movie film lab doing grading a long time ago also. In high school I went through a vocational training program to be a profesional photographer which included color lab work.

We have an ACME printer with Bell and Howell Di-chroic light house which I desigined a computer control for to do zero cut printing, that program DANCINES.EXE (tm) was then modified to also operate our scanner made from an Oxberry optical printer's parts. That program is up for people to try, for step contact, optical printing, or film scanning.

I wrote my DI systems CC after working with some other programs trying to find a universal color correction that would work well with color negative scans, masked or un-masked, as well and color and black and white positives, and image frames broght in from video. I made some changes so that 16bit TIF files made from RED ONE would work as well. Some other RED uses have been kind enough to share their footage and keyframes for "beta testing" but it helps me to get more samples to see what changes might make pulling extra impact from the images easer.

My Brother and I have been shooting 35mm film for more than 20years, and before that 16mm and other formats. We have sent out stuff to many film labs and have had to deal with what they did or did not do to the footage.

I can't show you a finished feature yet because my Brother has issues and keeps changing his mind about what is going to get done, there is nothing I can do about that is there? So when I can I hope to do my own projects. Its best not to get involved with family or friends I think, best to keep things between people who are serious about doing the best they can.

The CC part of my system came after the sound mixing since I started out writing the sound mixing to replace the 35mm mag film transport to make my life easer in doing the sound for a feature to be shot on 35mm film, as you know that would entail making a workprint and that adds to the cost. Doing the mix in software lets you use the film scans as the workprint so no telecine or workprint costs are involved and that saves thousands of dollars.

The editing part was just to give a list of cut points from the digital work print to conform the negative to, but the dust problems with negative cutting caused us to switch to doing a full DI and not to cut the negative, then the frames could be processed to remove the dust (not released yet). At any rate, the editing part works just as well for negative conform or DI, but the DI saves most of the work and gives a cleaner result, and since my system can work up to about 8k there is no large quality loss over optical printing.

I also have a background in electronics and machining, as well as developing CAD/CAM/DI software. I have interests in music composition MIDI, audio curcuits, and mag film systems using syncro motors etc. Movie camera, printer, and other stuff servicing. I have done research on the structure of film editing in finished films, and the structure of drama as used in film. My first real job at 18 was as a color TV repair man having to component repair 3 color TVs each day, and run the shop while the owner went to Sweden for a month. I know how to use a Scope and video circuit theory. I produced a two hour video about my programs on 1" type C at a local post place, and it was distributed as VHS in NTSC, PAL, and SECAM world wide. I have two published papers on autostereoscopic video displays.

I have done the shooting and lighting on my Brothers film school projects, and some of my own, one of mine was shown on public television a long time ago.

If anyone wants to see what my DI system can do I have a free sample offer, they can use it for "freeish" if they want. Its written for my own use, DOS so that there is no windows licence fee for the render farm computers and so they can run for months without a crash hopefully.

Anyway, thats who I am, I wanted my Brother to sell all the 35mm movie equipment and purchase a RED ONE while it was still worth something two years ago, but he has "issues" so I have just been asking for sample frames to work with. No true RAW data since that part of the RED ONE was never finished, mostly because they over desigined it, for many people just 24fps is fine they do not need high speed for feature films, but RED did not see it that way, so we live with R3D which are not so bad since being 4K the artifacts are small in relation to the frame height...

A while back I was at a filmmaker friend's house and Richard Edlund was there and I asked him if he would like to make a film with me, his reply was that he started making light shows in the 60s, and works for ILM, which I took to mean he had no interest in making films. So who does one work with, I have been looking for people who want to do something worth doing, it is not easy to find them?

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Dan,

There are several R3D's flying around this forum and other places which you could grab and use in your system. You can, of course, download Redcine and turn the R3D's into DPX, Cineon, whatever you need and then go from there. Peter Majtan posted several R3D's on Scarletuser.net and there are some more on RedRelay as well. I would like to see what your system can do, not so much what you as colorist can do since that is, ultimately, a question of taste and preference and artistry, which you may or may not have, but applying any kind of look to ungraded footage should give a idea of what your system can do. Why not try that?

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Thanks for the tips...

Thanks for the tips...

Dan,

There are several R3D's flying around this forum and other places which you could grab and use in your system. You can, of course, download Redcine and turn the R3D's into DPX, Cineon, whatever you need and then go from there. Peter Majtan posted several R3D's on Scarletuser.net and there are some more on RedRelay as well. I would like to see what your system can do, not so much what you as colorist can do since that is, ultimately, a question of taste and preference and artistry, which you may or may not have, but applying any kind of look to ungraded footage should give a idea of what your system can do. Why not try that?

We have already output to 35mm film the "space shuttle launch", "Euro-guy walking in front of library(?)", and "drag race car" from REDRELAY, I edited them into a test reel, the smoke in "space shuttle launch" and "drag race car" were why I changed DANCINEL.EXE (tm) to use gamma spread to improve the highlight detail. I used a sample "Yojimbo (1961)" frame Peter Majtan posted before to test shadow detail in the filmouts, it is also good for highlight detail and focus since the reflections in the forehead of one of the actors is near the clip in the 6K ARRI scanner.

I asked Peter Majtan for some R3D with lip sync and a clap board slate to check R3D to WAV conversion to see if there are any issues with lip sync, but he and the others did not seem to have any to share, so if anyone has lip sync with a clap board on an R3D that would help confirm everything needed is there.

As for taste, I can send samples of gradings of a keyframe and the user can tell me if they want it more one way or the other. Right now my system does film like grading, although with much more control. Later I might add more filters to go past film like results, but for now that is were our needs are. GIGO though, garbage in garbage out for the most part, lighting is more important that grading as is composition, art direction, costume design, what color the sets and things are painted. I am always getting into arguments with my Brother about what can be "fixed in the lab" and what needs to be done when shooting, he wanted to copy a shot from The "Train (1964)", I pointed out to him that from the shadows of the actors that they must have had several large ARC lights for fill, so he would need to rent them and some generator trucks if he wanted it to look similar, the relation ship of tones is set when the image is shot by the color of the subjects and the light falling on them, unless you run masks to "burn and dodge" the shot that relationship is fixed, you can only shift it up and down in grading.

If you want to pull some TIF frames from that sample footage you would like to see processed I can see what can be done with them. My Brother likes extreem grading so it looks like a print from a 4th or 6th generation print from a lab that uses strong solutions. But I can try to tone it down if you want something flatter. If you look at my other posts I have had several examples of processed frames up, although I am not sure about the links since REDUSER crashed.

Here are some I did a few days ago off some 16mm scans posted as JPG files by another REDUSER,

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32303

I would expect better results going from a good 48bpp TIF file, but even so I think they look better that the JPGs because the histogram was not fully used, as you can see in my LEVELS screen in the posted screen shot.

Maybe later I will add video like chroma key "gravity" effects filters and such, but those are not film like grading.

Since I am going for the best uncompressed quality 12bits or more are needed, my my I/O is with 16bit (48bpp) TIF files. I can also read and write BMP. My NIP 203 file is 11bits Red, 11bits Green, and 10bits blue, so gives almost twice the tonal range as 10bit DPX with a about the same little less disk space used, it for archive of graded frames (not for RAW film scans).