Logging Footage in a FCP Environment

[Evadiva]

On a feature film at what point is the footage logged so that the AE can organize the project and dump the clips into the scene bins for the editor? I seem to get a lot of different answers to this question and surely it varies from project to project.

I know that a lot of big features backup the footage then send the drive to the lab and the lab does the log and transfer; but what is the best practice for logging clips (and transcoding) if we wanted to do it ourselves and use the lab only to finish. I consulted Red on this, but wanted to get some feedback from someone who has been in the trenches (especially any pitfalls or garbage in, garbage out experiences).

I know that an AE can log and transcode, but I was wondering what the difference is in workflow between a low budget and medium/large budget feature. Is this the responsibility of the AE or does the data wrangler or ninja handle this? And what is a ninja and why does he make so much money? If the data wrangler (or ninja - forgive me for my ignorance) does the transcode to Pro Res on set for the offline edit, and the pro res is delivered to the editing room what is the best way to log the clips?

I guess the question also comes down to - how does one man the cutting room?

Thanks for helping me wrap my head around this new workflow!

Eva

 

[joe hedge]

On low budget indies I data wrangle, transcode and asst edit. I take the camera drive home, back up the raw camera files to 2 external drives (real ones, not MyBooks or LaCies) at the same time with Shot Put Pro, than hook each drive up to separate MacPro towers and use RedRushes to transcode to whatever flavor of ProRes or DNxHD the editor/post house wants. Then import the transcodes into FCP (or export an ALE out of RedRushes and batch import into Avid), sync sound if needed, create master clips and scene bins, and at the end of the shoot hand everything off to the editor. The workflow is a little more complex than that, but that's the basics.

 

[maho]

I'm in the process of using Redrushes right now to transcode R3D media. One question I have - once I bring the newly transcoded footage into FCP to organize, can I safely change the file names within FCP to reflect scene/take without fear of losing their connection to the original R3D files?

 

[Evadiva]

Thanks! By real drives, would you say Buffalo or GRaid? Do you log during your transcode, or is that what you mean by create master clips? In which case, how do you do that (subclip?) I come from the telecine world in which the AE has a flex file and batch digitizes, so I am concerned with about the metadata, etc with the Red, and how wacky subclips are for an editor in FCP. The guy at Red said that if we use the FCP log and transfer, we could change the file names and later conform to the R3 media with no problem. Is that true with Red Rushes? I suppose my question now is the same as maho.

Thanks, again!

Eva

 

[joe hedge]

I would never change any file names, you just put the clips into bins which you can name anything you want. You and the editor should test your workflow in whatever color correcting environment you plan on using to make sure everything links back to the R3D's. Bear in mind, though, that there are perfectly acceptable CC alternatives that involve staying with your original transcodes that eliminate the need to go back to the R3D's.

Creating new master clips for the editor to cut scenes with involves selecting (apple-A) everything in the timeline and drag-drop it back to whatever bin you want the master clips to reside in. The camera settings (metadata) stay with the R3D's, and can be modified in RedAlert which generates an .RSX file which stays in the folder with the R3D's and the camera proxies.

Not sure what you mean by "log during transcode" - define "log".

Finally, the basic rule is, stay away from cheap drives. I use Avastors and have never had any problems, whereas I just had a brand-new Western Digital My Book the producers bought without my approval die on me on day 2 out of the box! GRaids are also good, although really the Raid 0 config a Graid uses is better suited for editing, not backing up and transcoding, since the added bandwidth of Raid 0 is not needed.

 

[Evadiva]

Thanks, Joe. By logging I mean using the slate information to label clip like the telecine operator does. On the big pictures I have looked at, this was done by the lab. The guy at Red said that in FCP you can change the file names and the metadata stays intact. As an editor, I have always had scene bins with all my takes labelled which match the script notes, camera reports, etc. With this new workflow, I want to understand how to get to that point. I think we have established the Pro Res offline with a conform to the R3. I did a test run by logging and transferring my dailies and changed the file names to match the slate. The new media on the scratch disk has the identical timecode as the mag proxy Quicktimes, so if understood the guy at Red and the metadata is indeed intact, I imagine this should work.

I can't even imagine editing with the file names that come out of the Mag, but maybe I am missing something here, so I appreciate your input before we get started and make a costly mistake.

And I so know that pitfall of a Western Digital drive. Ouch!

 

[MichaelP]

Speaking for an Avid workflow, you can change names to human loving ones to make the editor happy.

All relevant source metadata is tracked in other columns. You only need it the first time you do the ALE to QT merge. I keep a dailies bin of my original transcode, then I create scene bins where I copy the files (not move them) and change the name to my heart's content. Since these are only pointers, it still points to the original files from the dailies bin. Should a drive die or a file get deleted by mistake, I do a batch import from the original bin with the original files and everything relinks automagically.

Michael

 

[Evadiva]

Avid is my next workflow challenge. Thanks for the tips; I think that I have a FCP workflow that's similar. I will let you know how the test pans out.

 

[Evadiva]

Okay. So I ran a test and logged and transferred to Pro Res. During this process I changed each clip name to it's slated info (41_1) then I edited together a sequence. I then used media manage to create an offline. I opened the offline project, loaded the master clips into log and transfer window and got a message that told me what Mags to load. I mounted the mags which came in with their original file names, even though the master clips had new names, so it seems to me that the metadata is maintained and read despite the file name change and I can re-transcode just my sequence if I wanted to go to Pro Res HQ. My assumption (although I hate to assume - and would love someone to set me straight) is that this would be true if I wanted to go back to the original R3D files.... Could I hand off the sequence (EDL? XML?) to the lab and would they be able to conform and cc?

And how about timecode and the Red..... What should I look out for there?

So many thanks!

 

[joe hedge]

Could I hand off the sequence (EDL? XML?) to the lab and would they be able to conform and cc?

That is the real question, everything else is just playing around in FCP Media Manager...you have to run a test with your workflow where you export an EDL/AAf for the post house and see what happens. On the project I am currently on, we tried an AAF with renamed master clips on a Pablo and it failed, then I switched the names of the master clips back to the original camera file names, and the AAF linked back to the R3D's.

 

[Evadiva]

Thanks for affirming my obsession with running everything through the pipeline before production begins. I am running my tests with a low budget film that just finished shooting, but I think that they are going to stay in Pro Res for the moment, so I don't get to test the lab conform and cc, etc.... I do understand that this is a conversation that I will have with the lab before I go into production, I just want to be well versed so thanks for your input. And hopefully I will get to run a complete test!

 

[Trevor Meier]

FCP workflow-land can be really straightforward. Just render to ProRes, drag & drop in Final Cut, rename your clips and *leave the filenames alone*. All will be well.

When Red says "use log & transfer" that is a different workflow than rendering ProRes files with RedRushes, and at the moment I don't recommend log & transfer for performance reasons.

To keep your editor happy and the edit suite snappy, render your clips to ProRes. You can do 1K or 1080, whatever suits your fancy. Use RedRushes or Clipfinder (or any of the other tools out there).

In this case, it's *important* that you don't change the file names of the Quicktime .mov's that RedRushes creates. (While the Log & Transfer workflow can allow for this, Final Cut is happiest if you leave filenames intact). But that doesn't mean you have to edit with those weird and whacky names... Final Cut will handle the literal file names in the background for you (one of it's strengths).

Here's a step by step:
1. Render to ProRes for your rushes
2. Drag & drop ProRes .mov Quicktime files into Final Cut Pro
3. Rename clip names to match slate (changing the clip name in Final Cut does not change the file name) & sort into bins
4. Sub-clip if necessary (not usually necessary, since one clip usually = one take)
5. Sync with audio if that hasn't been done for you.

... You're off to the races. Edit away.

When the edit is done and ready for the DI, export an EDL or XML (check with whoever's doing the DI) and give them a hard drive with the .R3D files on it. The EDL/XML will contain both the filenames of the Quicktime .mov's, and/or the Reel ID, both of which will match the filenames of the .R3D's from the camera.

It's pretty simple... render to prores, drag & drop (without changing filenames) into Final Cut, change clip names & sort into bins, and you're golden. Spit out an EDL when you're done.

 

[joe hedge]

When the edit is done and ready for the DI, export an EDL or XML (check with whoever's doing the DI) and give them a hard drive with the .R3D files on it. The EDL/XML will contain both the filenames of the Quicktime .mov's, and/or the Reel ID, both of which will match the filenames of the .R3D's from the camera.

It's pretty simple... render to prores, drag & drop (without changing filenames) into Final Cut, change clip names & sort into bins, and you're golden. Spit out an EDL when you're done.

Except if the post house tells you that you can't change the clip names (like mine did when we tested it on their Pablo on a test sequence before editing started), and you've already edited, instead of checking with them first, you're screwed.

 

[Evadiva]

Thanks. The lab did tell me that the data wrangler would be doing the transcode on set, so I imagine that this is the way to go (have my assistant change the file names in FCP). The one concern I have is that if the scratch disk has different file names than the clips in the project and everything goes offline, relinking could be a huge problem. Likewise, if the assistant is on one station and I am on another and we are not networked, my assistant has to (maybe) log and transfer, ( if not just change clips names to match slate) organize my bins then move the footage to my edit station daily, which will requires a relink.

Which brings up a whole new question.... Has anyone worked on FCP in a shared media situation?

By the way, with our test run we used log and transfer to go to Pro Res. What kind of problems would we run into by doing this?

Thanks for all the support, folks!

Eva

 

[Evadiva]

Totally! I always have a conversation about it all - including AV settings! Garbage in, garbage out.... Calling the lab today. Thanks for getting me up to speed everybody!