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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Public Enemies Look

I don't like the funny perspective on smaller formats. Even s35 is a bit funny compared to FF35 and medium format.

Does that make ME a bad person?
 
Sanjin should send a letter thanking Michael Mann for not choosing the Red One camera... because Mann would have insisted on making it look very video-ish and then everyone would now be blaming the camera and thinking that's the way Red footage naturally looks.

So Red dodged a bullet...
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Sanjin should send a letter thanking Michael Mann for not choosing the Red One camera... because Mann would have insisted on making it look very video-ish and then everyone would now be blaming the camera and thinking that's the way Red footage naturally looks.

So Red dodged a bullet...
Click to expand...

David,

maybe I should do it :smile5: but to add that Michael Mann if he would use RED1 for sure could get totally different and better images even though he was looking for a sort of "extreme video-ish" look. :cheers2:
 
Just got back from seeing this...

I think Mann was going for "Cloverfield" meets "The Untouchables". I think the look was supposed to convey a hyper-real, "if a man (Mann) had a hi-def video camera in 1933 and was able to tail Dillenger..." this is what it would look like. I can't say I'm very fond of it but it did seem purposeful.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
David,

maybe I should do it :smile5: but to add that Michael Mann if he would use RED1 for sure could get totally different and better images even though he was looking for a sort of "extreme video-ish" look. :cheers2:
Click to expand...

That's not true, Sanjin. Even Jim Jannard conceded that the F23 had better dynamic range than the Red One after Claudio Miranda posted his comparison test. I'd say that the color depth / space of the F23 was also better than the Red One. So what does that leave? That the Red One has somewhat better resolution and it has 35mm depth of field. So "totally different and better" is an exaggeration.

You could just as well say that Mann could have gotten totally different and better images from the F23 if he had wanted to, but since he didn't, why would he take a different approach with the Red?

It's just not sinking into some people's head that what Mann did to the F23 is not indicative of how film-like it can look, that he deliberately limited its dynamic range, the color depth, and added a lot of edge ehancement, plus turned off the shutter -- all of which contributed to a video look. He could have timed Red footage to match, all except for the depth of field difference.

If you've seen some of the assessment tests of the different cameras out there shooting the same subjects, you'd see that the F23 does quite well and that the Red One does not radically outperform it.

If you don't believe me, go out and shoot your own comparison tests.
 
Evin Grant said:
Just got back from seeing this...

I think Mann was going for "Cloverfield" meets "The Untouchables". I think the look was supposed to convey a hyper-real, "if a man (Mann) had a hi-def video camera in 1933 and was able to tail Dillenger..." this is what it would look like. I can't say I'm very fond of it but it did seem purposeful.
Click to expand...

I didn't like "Cloverfield" so much because the story was so kinder-ish and a little bit dull.

I like extreme video look of "Redacted" by Brian de Palma because cheap handheld video is a strong part of the story or video look parts

"In the Valley of Elah" by Paul Haggis also were the cheap touristic video is a part of the story.

One more thing I would like to say at the end that by look of trailer I like PE extreme video look, also MM as a director has got a certain "digital charisma"

in the eyes of younger moviegoers and that's my point where I could maybe figure out that "Sony Boys" "picked" him up to show that Sony digital technology

still has leading role in digital age. Of course they paid for that "behind the scene/curtain" even if the movie was not released by Sony , it released by Universal Pictures.

Big studios always had deals between each other as we should know it. BTW, also it's a good idea for a great triller.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
That's not true, Sanjin. Even Jim Jannard conceded that the F23 had better dynamic range than the Red One after Claudio Miranda posted his comparison test. I'd say that the color depth / space of the F23 was also better than the Red One. So what does that leave? That the Red One has somewhat better resolution and it has 35mm depth of field. So "totally different and better" is an exaggeration.

You could just as well say that Mann could have gotten totally different and better images from the F23 if he had wanted to, but since he didn't, why would he take a different approach with the Red?

It's just not sinking into some people's head that what Mann did to the F23 is not indicative of how film-like it can look, that he deliberately limited its dynamic range, the color depth, and added a lot of edge ehancement, plus turned off the shutter -- all of which contributed to a video look. He could have timed Red footage to match, all except for the depth of field difference.

If you've seen some of the assessment tests of the different cameras out there shooting the same subjects, you'd see that the F23 does quite well and that the Red One does not radically outperform it.

If you don't believe me, go out and shoot your own comparison tests.
Click to expand...

David,

I'm ready for the match F23 vs RED1 in dynamic range new tests.

I'll bring RED1/B20 with Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH, Canon FD 50mm and 85mm f/1.2 ASPH or any of Arri/Zeiss MP Prime and you can invite Claudio Miranda or who else is ready with Sony f23 with Digi Primes...

and we go...

I'll be a winner for sure (100%)!!!!:hurray:

Also just read on CML forum that "BSC film & digital image evaluation" was a big mess with results...
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
David,

I'm ready for the match F23 vs RED1 in dynamic range new tests.

I'll bring RED1/B20 with Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH, Canon FD 50mm and 85mm f/1.2 ASPH or any of Arri/Zeiss MP Prime and you can invite Claudio Miranda or who else is ready with Sony f23 with Digi Primes...

and we go...

I'll be a winner for sure (100%)!!!!:hurray:

Also just read on CML forum that "BSC film & digital image evaluation" was a big mess with results...
Click to expand...

You seem to be really taking this to the extreme... fact is, the F23 is a good camera, Mann shot his movie the way he wanted and clearly he didnt want a camera with 35mm DOF. Saying Sony pressured him into choosing the Cinealta is a bit of a strecth to me.
 
Plundstr said:
You seem to be really taking this to the extreme... fact is, the F23 is a good camera, Mann shot his movie the way he wanted and clearly he didnt want a camera with 35mm DOF. Saying Sony pressured him into choosing the Cinealta is a bit of a strecth to me.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that Sony "pressured" to use f23, i said that Sony "wanted" him to shoot with Sony cameras and that happened.

All those "stories" about depth of field, dynamic range, etc., are all just a big smoke curtain.

He could achieve similar or even better results shooting with "other" digital cameras and RED is one of the best choices...

That I said and will not repeat again and again all the time.

Supposed to be that some people still living in a sort of "arty idealistic" or "virgin" world.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
I didn't say that Sony "pressured" to use f23, i said that Sony "wanted" him to shoot with Sony cameras and that happened.

All those "stories" about depth of field, dynamic range, etc., are all just a big smoke curtain.

He could achieve similar or even better results shooting with "other" digital cameras and RED is one of the best choices...

That I said and will not repeat again and again all the time.

Supposed to be that some people still living in a sort of "arty idealistic" or "virgin" world.
Click to expand...

Better results in what way exactly...? The F23 is clearly capable of better image quality than the stuff we saw in PE. Hence I can only draw the conclusion Mann was after that specific look, rendering any discussions over the "quality" rather pointless.

As for arty idealistic virgins... sorry, have no idea what youre talking about.
 
If this whole thing was a plot by the Sony Boys, it definitely backfired. Now the F23 is associated with the worst-looking major digital feature ever made.
 
Plundstr said:
As for arty idealistic virgins... sorry, have no idea what youre talking about.
Click to expand...

Plundstr,

before I could say anything more about a "real world" vs. "idealistic world", we RED Users cleared a couple of months ago about use of "real names" policy here...

Tom said:
If this whole thing was a plot by the Sony Boys, it definitely backfired. Now the F23 is associated with the worst-looking major digital feature ever made.
Click to expand...

Shit happened, Sony Boys lost this PE game obviously after MM screwed the look (also no weekend box office) and MM should scratch his head before he would make again decision to use the same tools...

RED Boys will have a big chance here in the future...
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Plundstr,

before I could say anything more about a "real world" vs. "idealistic world", we RED Users cleared a couple of months ago about use of "real names" policy here...



Shit happened, Sony Boys lost this PE game obviously after MM screwed the look (also no weekend box office) and MM should scratch his head before he would make again decision to use the same tools...

RED Boys will have a big chance here in the future...
Click to expand...

Wha... clearly the F23 wasnt the problem, as is evident by all the beautiful footage we have seen from it in other movies. Not to mention the older F900 series also looked great. I personally wouldnt hesitate a second to shoot a movie with the F23 if given the chance... as for this real names stuff you talked about, I have no idea what you mean (my username?).
 
Now... here's the question, saw the movie last night... What scenes were shot with the EX1?
 
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