Durability of RED?

[George Allen]

Couple of notable things about red I need to know.

First off, i will be using the camera at very high altitude and very cold conditions. (I suppose it won't overheat :hurray but will the camera have problems operating in temperatures up to 50 below?

Also, are there any covers for the red one? (water proof preferably) basically something that make it resistant to rain? Also it would act as a insulator to cold winds and snow...

While im at it, I may as well also ask if RED lenses are also suited to these conditions. I wouldn't be asking this, but last time i took my DSRL into a cold climate it broke within a couple of days.... Now i just tend to use my hassleblad.

Anyway yah! Cheers in advance

 

[Florian Stadler]

The viewfinder is a huge problem in the cold. It starts falling apart in the 20 degree F range already...

 

[George Allen]

That could be a problem, i need a sturdy camera... Climing 20,000 ft on a 22 day mountaineering course just to be let down by a technical glitch simply isn't an option I can afford. (especially since i can only physically carry one camera)

Are there any possible solutions to the viewfinder problem? Maybe some sort of multi-layered fleece/coat.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

What are you shooting? The experience? Why on RED?

Its a fantastic DIGITAL CINEMA camera... its not really a run and gun camera (Scarlet is)

Are you buying or renting? If renting, what is rental policy? I doubt anyone would let their RED ONE camera out on such an extreme excursion. It will probably wear you
out carry it versus something lighter...

but with all electronics and cold. condensation and icing are always going to be an issue
especially going from Hot to Cold... the camera heating up in cold etc...

You would need to develop some sort of cold weather package... and if you search these
threads... I rememeber reading about a couple people who shot extreme cold... and it was challenging... but to me, your BIGGER challenge is choosing to lug one of the heaviest digital camera systems ... I love RED. but until Scarlet ships. I personally
would not bog myself down with the weight for 22 days

 

[George Allen]

Yeh thats a fair point, however i planned on actually buying a scarlet / maybe cinema. But i knew very few people have tried it, let a lone in extreme conditions. So basically i asked if RED one was durable, as thats usually the best way to tell if its ancestors will be too...


Im planning on shooting a documentary; and i want the scenes to have a cinematic appeal (not too real and gritty).

I think the main issue surrounding the constant change between heat and cold is to wrap the camera, firmly, in a thick coat of some sort. Because as you mentioned, the main cause of screwing comes from the transition between hot and cold; so blocking out the sun is a good start.

I guess lens changing would have to be stripped down to the bare minimum, and only done in a moderate environment. Maybe if in transport i inserted the unit inside my sleeping bag; it could help to maintain a steady temperature. As long as the camera is not even remotely warm when put back in the sleeping bag; i do not see why short shooting periods are not possible.

If anyone disagrees please say, input + ideas appreciated

And im climing Mount McKinley.

 

[rod bradley]

Don't forget you have to power the camera -- and it's quite demanding. So that means a number of batteries as well -- and I don't know if any kind of solar chargers will be able to help you out in that environment.

And you'll need to buy/rent sufficient CF card time for all your footage -- or carry a lightweight download setup -- I'd suggest 2 or 3 NEXTOs with 500 gig drives. (also dependent on battery power).

I'd also consider going with lighter weight DSLR lenses (Canon or Nikon) and screw-on ND & IR filters -- will save considerable weight. And I'd email Steve Gibby, who is superb in his knowledge and has a lot of experience shooting with Red in extreme conditions in remote areas. He's also extremely generous and thorough in his advice.

Where there's sufficient will, there's often a way. And I for one would see where having the detail of 4K on such a trek would make the footage much more unique and evocative of the experience. Good luck. And let us know.

 

[Ace]

You need an assistant/sherpa person to carry your stuff and extra batteries and help you out. Doing it on your own will be challenging. Set aside a budget.. Sometimes extra hands are the best answer!

 

[Pawel Achtel]

That could be a problem, i need a sturdy camera... Climing 20,000 ft on a 22 day mountaineering course just to be let down by a technical glitch simply isn't an option I can afford. (especially since i can only physically carry one camera)

There is no way in the world you can carry a cinema camera setup (like the Red One) 20,000ft up with less than 10 mules. No way.

In the cold you will need 2-3 times more batteries than normal. Charging from solar panels won't work unless you have a solar cell the size of a car and weighing upwards of 100kg. The best is a Honda genie, which I used extensively in remote locations. It is about 13kg plus fuel. That's the lightest, most efficient, most reliable power source you can have.

At the top you will need a sturdy tripod and a head, add minimum 20kg.

Mattebox, filters, lenses, accessories, and the camera: at least 30kg.

Forget fabric camera bags. You will demage the equipment. Add Pelican cases, and we are talking well over 150kg of gear at the very minimum.

Have you ever shot with R1 even in a "light weight" configuration?

 

[Tyler Black]

I realize this is in no way close to your situation, but maybe you can take this and multiply the concept to meet your challenge.

This winter I was shooting in weather around the single digit range fahrenheit. I took a pair of hand warmers - the kind you use to slip inside your gloves - and held them to oposite sides of the viewfinder with two socks (I cut off the feet and just used the leg portion. It slipped right over the barrel of the viewfinder). It worked great. I was only in the weather for a few hours, mind you, not the extended duration and cold you will experience.

I should think when you come up with some ideas, you could go to a local ice-making facility - the kind of place that provides bags of ice for grocery stores. These ice-making companies have freezers that are well into the sub-zero range. I used to work at one and I'm thinking the freezers were in the -20 to -30F area. They'd probably let you come in with a camera for a few hours and test the viewfinder.

Without the hand-warmers, my viewfinder reacted to the cold very quickly - within 1/2 hour. Good luck with your shoot.

 

[rod bradley]

And I doubt many mules are too happy at 20,000 feet -- and of course they have to be fed. And watered.

Pawel's points are all well taken, and if you can do it his way, of course. But I doubt that's in your game plan or budget from the sound of it.

And if not, and you're set on it, there probably is another way up the mountain that doesn't require a full-on cinema setup and will still yield great footage. I have carried my Red in a lightweight configuration in Kata backpacks into some challenging areas but not for 22 days to 20,000 feet -- something I couldn't do anyway. But the camera suffered no damage and no failures in both desert and mountain areas.

You would probably get more relevant advice if you outlined what you're trying to do more precisely, how much footage, what's the nature of the "story" you're telling, etc. If you could be content with shooting 20 minutes of footage a day on average, and you had the crew to carry a dozen or more batteries, and were content with two lightweight Nikon zooms say a 17=55 & 70-200 & maybe one fast lens , say a 50mm 1.4 nikkor or a 30mm 1.4 signma, the camera with those lenses with the 5.6 LCD packed in a Kata will be on the light side of 40 pounds -- then you need batteries -- maybe you can get 45 minutes in the cold out of each if you can pack enough chemical warmers. Yeah, you need support, go Miller solo with an Oconnor 1030 or an Arrow 40, that's 20 pounds not kilos in a backpack case. This obviously isn't the professional or desireable way to do things, and of course requires great stamina and luck and all of that. I wouldn't advise it, but people have successfully done far crazier things and succeeded. Just know what you're getting into and take a couple of three or five day treks on local mountains to see what works.

 

[George Allen]

Ah I wrote such a nice reply, then i deleted it by accident… Take 2:

Don't forget you have to power the camera -- and it's quite demanding. So that means a number of batteries as well -- and I don't know if any kind of solar chargers will be able to help you out in that environment.

This will not be such a problem, I will only require to carry enough supplies to film around 10 minutes of decent footage. Since the nature of the scenes, I doubt we will have to do multiple takes. Of course though, there is no denying this could add up to around 100/200 minutes of raw footage.

I'd also consider going with lighter weight DSLR lenses (Canon or Nikon)

Great idea… I have a good amount of Nikon compatible lenses available to me, so this is really a good option.

You need an assistant/sherpa person to carry your stuff

You cannot climb the mountain alone, that’s basically suicide. I will be doing it with a long time friend. However taking more people isn’t the solution; as everyone will require supplies (food water) and the risk of injury is greatly increased… something that could hold the whole group up.

There is no way in the world you can carry a cinema camera setup (like the Red One) 20,000ft

I think this is a fair point, however depending on the weight of the Scarlet series, I will reserve judgement. Remember guys; just as I will be cutting my supplies down to the minimum. The cameras supplies will be cut right down too… (Only taking appropriate filters, lenses a lightweight tripod; appropriate batteries.) I don’t need to go insane with the equipment; I just need to ration it...

Forget fabric camera bags

I have to disagree, with the right thought; there is no reason why certain equipment couldn’t be packaged within softer, more practical solutions. I have experience hiking and mountaineering with camera equipment, If the RED will hold up to the conditions, I will find a way of making it happen.

I should think when you come up with some ideas, you could go to a local ice-making facility - the kind of place that provides bags of ice for grocery stores. These ice-making companies have freezers that are well into the sub-zero range. I used to work at one and I'm thinking the freezers were in the -20 to -30F area. They'd probably let you come in with a camera for a few hours and test the viewfinder.

Another very good idea, definitely something I will do; cheers for the advice. And like you said, I think the main issue to start at is finding some sort of cover for the camera (may even have to have it custom made).

And I doubt many mules are too happy at 20,000 feet

haha, indeed... I think I got a couple of points that I should mention. Equipment and supplies are typically carried by sled to 11,000 ft. Above 11,000 ft, gear and food/supplies are usually ferried between camps in two trips. That’s your typical run of the mountain, basically you climb it twice. So there is a possibility that I can carry much more equipment than some may think; however guys, lets not go insane. I have a sony FX1 at my service at all times, if the worst comes to the worst I will just take that. But seriously, im going to put every effort into getting a RED to the top of that mountain.

Cheers for all your advice guys, i will contact the people you have said too. Keep it coming, its all good!!!

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

but will the camera have problems operating in temperatures up to 50 below?

Last winter used my Red One a lot in low temperatures down to -30C, which is I guess about the same as -30F --isn't the approximate rule that X Farenheits is (X-30)/2 in Celsius. The camera and LCD worked just fine in cold, but as is well known the EVF does not when it's below 0C/30F. The camera had a simple cover that just prevented snow melting on the camera body and connectors. The nice thing is that the batteries last quite a bit longer in cold as the camera remains cooler and consequently internal resistivities stay lower resulting in less power lost in heat losses.

 

[George Allen]

Cheers for the info!

 

[Axel Mertes]

Hi Guys,

if the EVF is such an issue in cold, how does the traditional LCD perform in that environment?

Anyone have experience with this?

Cheers,
Axel

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

how does the traditional LCD perform in that environment?

In my experience the Red LCD performs without any troubles. Last winter I had the camera and LCD several hours in a cold car under -20C. When I pushed the camera on, everything including the LCD worked without any sort of issues. In addition, the LCD generates a bit of heat. So, if a snow flake falls on the display, it will quickly disappear.

 

[Julio Quintana]

It sounds like for a trip like this, it would be better to just not bring the EVF and just use the LCD. The EVF is very heavy and cumbersome, so there's no reason you couldn't get a cheap monitor shade or just put a towel over your head to look at the LCD in sunlight.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Taking a RED, climbing alpine-style and unsupported, is probably prohibitively weighty when you add in the tripod support and batteries. You are probably better off with an EX-1 or something similar. It is not that easy to just yank the RED ONE out of a pack and take a few quick shots on a moment's notice. The start-up time alone is 80-90 seconds, which will seem like an eternity when you are hanging out on a tiny ledge waiting for the camera to boot.

 

[James Brundige]

I have done quite a bit of high altitude shooting in the Himalayas and Andes. The limitations in weight are a factor of your support team. My colleague got an Imax camera on the summit of Everest with the help of a crack team of Sherpas. If you are solo, forget the Red. If you have a team, it can work. Either way, have a back up, and lots of batteries.

 

[George Allen]

Cheers for all the advice guys Its good to hear that these cameras are hacking some pretty extreme conditions.

I would like to re-iterate for everyone (as i have done 3 times previously) i'm most probably not going to be taking the red one up. By the looks of things the red Scarlet is a lot more compact, and hopefully less heavy!

But yeh, cheers again for all the info And taking a RED one to the top of mount Everest is an achievement to be proud of. Those sherpas are simply amasing, they are so well aclimatised to that mountain; it really helps! The most freaky thing about everest in my opinion, is how you can be walking up the mountain, and you have dead bodies scattered all around you. Its very eary.

 

[Cail Young]

There is no way in the world you can carry a cinema camera setup (like the Red One) 20,000ft up with less than 10 mules. No way.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120661/

Did they use mules? I don't know...