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Hot Mirror - IR Which one?

A

Aaron Bernakevitch

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Hello

Just looking for some input about what IR or hot mirror filter to purchase. Not sure if there is a difference between the two names (hot mirror and IR) but in either case been reading and chatting with other DP.s and seems like a good investment.

Been looking here

http://search.store.yahoo.net/cgi-bin/nsearch?query=hot mirror&catalog=cinemasupplies&go.x=0&go.y=0

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

I am wondering what the best one to invest in as they all have different properties, which one would be the overall better filter to get, if I was only going to get one. Or if I should be looking at another product or website? please let me know.

I know that every filter has a exact application depending on the lighting and situation. But one filter is all that is in my budget right now.


Also tried updating my name on forum and it hasn't worked as of yet


Best

Aaron Bernakevitch
 
I like the Formatt one the best. AbelCine and Filmtools have them. The Formatt IR+ND filters are good too.

In my kit I have .9, 1.2 and 1.5 IR+ND as well as the IR Hot Mirror in addition to conventional ND filters.

If you can only afford one for the kit, get the hot mirror. You can always stack conventional ND filters behind it. The IR / hot mirror filters don't play nice with polas and the IR filters / mirror have to be the first filter in the light path (furthest from the camera), obviously, because of their reflective surfaces.
 
Cheers

Cheers

Thank you sir

Best


Aaron
 
I have Pancro Budget kit. Love it
Also Check out:
Sticky: Hot Mirror/IRND/Mirror ND Filter Matrix... (Part 1 to 4)
By Evin Grant, in RED Accessories section
 
Cheers

Cheers

As usual great stuff guys, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Best Images,


Aaron
 
Pancro are good, that's what i am using, why not check out the test thread. There was very comprehensive test done on IR filters.
 
Hot spots and reflections

Hot spots and reflections

I'm using the Roscoe hot mirror in 5x6 and the Formatt hot mirror in 82mm screw in. I started with the 5x6 and just tried the 82mm screw in to see if getting the filters closer together and to the lens would help but it didn't. Of course I always place the hot mirror as the most outer filter wth the ND just behind the hot mirror. I'm not stacking ND's, just using one at a time. I have N.3 through n2.1.

Shooting car lots just seems impossible. Lots of bumpers and big hot spots with each hot spot making big orange internal reflections from the hot mirror. I get reflection free results in shots that don't include those shinny bumpers and windsheilds reflecting the sun, But shooting car lots is a regular thing for me. I suspect that even the IR ND will be the same story when shooting a hot spot. On my last shoot I stayed with an N.6 without any hot mirror but that meant many of my shots were at f16.

In a final hail marry, I'm going to attemp to make an insert tray for my Arri matte boxes that lets me install the hot mirror and ND at an angle and hopefully the reflections will no longer be visible. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
 
Any ideas?

Any ideas?

I'm using the Roscoe hot mirror in 5x6 and the Formatt hot mirror in 82mm screw in. I started with the 5x6 and just tried the 82mm screw in to see if getting the filters closer together and to the lens would help but it didn't. Of course I always place the hot mirror as the most outer filter wth the ND just behind the hot mirror. I'm not stacking ND's, just using one at a time. I have N.3 through n2.1.

Shooting car lots just seems impossible. Lots of bumpers and big hot spots with each hot spot making big orange internal reflections from the hot mirror. I get reflection free results in shots that don't include those shinny bumpers and windsheilds reflecting the sun, But shooting car lots is a regular thing for me. I suspect that even the IR ND will be the same story when shooting a hot spot. On my last shoot I stayed with an N.6 without any hot mirror but that meant many of my shots were at f16.

In a final hail marry, I'm going to attemp to make an insert tray for my Arri matte boxes that lets me install the hot mirror and ND at an angle and hopefully the reflections will no longer be visible. Does anyone have any other suggestions?[/QUOTE]
 
Regarding IRND's - are these stackable? Say you had a 1.2 irnd on but you wanted to open the lens up some - could you put a .6 irnd behind it? Or are they not stackable because of the reflective mirroring? I understand the mirrored part must be the filter farthest from the lens - but if you have two stacked, how can they BOTH be the farthest filter?


I have yet to buy a set of ND's, or an IR filter - im just wondering if it doesnt make most sense to get a .3,.6,.9,1.2 as pure ND's and have only one IR filter, knowing that if the 1.2 of ND wasn't enough, I could throw the .6 or what have you under it. If the IRND's are NOT stackable - wouldnt one need to buy more of them knowing that you cant add them together to cut more light?


So -Could I have two IRND's in my mattebox at once, or does the mirrored coating make this an impossibility?

Thanks,

Andrew Wilding
 
No, you can't stack the reflective filters Andrew.

I bought the Abel Cine Formatt IRND set which includes 0.3, 0.6, 0.9, 1.2IR and clear IR filters. This gives you pretty much any combination of 1 IR filter and the right amount of ND in 1 stop increments, from 0.3 + clear IR to 0.9 + 1.2IR for a crazy 2.1IR (7 stops!).

Always have the IR reflective filter furthest from the lens and facing the reflective side outwards obviously.

Formatt filters have the writing on the reflective side (useful for the clear IR filter as it can be hard to see it otherwise).

HTH

Paul
 
Last edited:
Paul is correct and this is exactly why I designed the Abel Formatt kit this way. Stacking IR filters can lead to internal reflections between the filters, which can cause optical abberations in your shot.

We still have a few of the Formatt bundle kits left, but not many. When they run out we'll be selling them at a much higher price than the original bundle. Formatt practically lost money on the deal!
 
Ok, Im sold. Having trouble find the package on your site tho - got a direct link to the package, Mitch?
 
I think we pulled it from the site because we only had a few left. But if you contact an Abel Sales Rep. they can give you complete details. Anyone having trouble getting info can contact me as well. I think the only sizes we have left are 4x5.65", but you should check.
 
Pancro is honored with contributing
to the 08 primetime emmy win of Adam
Beckman for his Documentary
"The American Life-Escape" on showtime. Adam said in a recent message "You'll be happy to know that Pancro filters played a HUGE role in the photography of that episode and I hope I can win us the gold and get you another one!!

ADAM WAS ALSO RECENTLY NOMINATED
FOR TWO PRIMETIME AWARDS FOR 09
Outstanding Cinematography and
Outstanding Director-(Adam uses Pancro IR+ND and Various ND Grads)

http://pancro.com

__________________
Brian Dougherty
Optical Tech/VP
Pancro
www.pancro.com
Brian Dougherty(PANCRO) is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message:nads::nads:
 

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Guys, today went and shot rock climbing in big cottonwood canyon near salt lake city. I wanted to shallow it out so I threw in the old format 1.2 + hot mirror. The cliffs had allot of red in them and the format filter pulled all the red out of the rock and made everything greenish. I was under the impression that it did not alter the visible spectrum of light but in this instance it clearly did. Any guesses?
 
The Formatt filters DO add some coloration to the image, shifting slightly to the purples (which is an easy fix in post), but they are infinitely preferable to the Pancros IF you are using Nikon or Canon SLR lenses. For some reason, many people using the Pancros with Nikons and Canons get horrible ghost images that are often not very visible until you're looking at your images on your computer monitor in post. These images are faint, can be as much as an apparent 3' to the right or left of your main image, and are really distracting; and there's nothing you can do about them.

I recommend the Formatt filters, as we never have gotten a ghost image with them. Never. But do white-balance after slipping one into the mattebox. That will fix the color shift.

We have the 0.9, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, and 2.1 ND+IR Formatts. The Pancros are beautiful filters, and they apparently work perfectly with PL glass, but, as a number of people on this forum have discovered, they are a disaster with Nikons and Canons.

Do a search on this forum of the words "ghost" or "ghosts" and "Pancro," and you'll find a number of people talking about this issue. What that search won't find is the large number of PMs I got from people experiencing the very same thing. I am unaware of any problem with ghosts using the Formatt filters.

Stephen
 
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