Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Noisy, self-consciously "digital" images from Scarlet

T

Tyler Rad Williamson

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
It's a look that many despise, but is still an aesthetically viable and interesting one; one that Michael Mann's Miami Vice (and to a much lesser extent, Collateral) utilized.

Mann shot most of Miami Vice in 1080p on a Thompson Viper and though the final film has a far from homogeneous look, it's mostly very brightly lighted, noisy, and sandpaper-textured owing to the way he and Dion Beebe (his DOP) used the Viper.

My question is -- and I suppose it can only be answered by those who have already used the RED or have a good understanding of the Scarlet specs already released -- will the Scarlet be able to capture footage in a similar style, and if so, how? High ISO, under or over exposing and correcting in post? Will the high resolution limit the appearance of noise (too fine to be noticeable)?
 
Sure turn off the shutter, pump up the gain and you'll get the same cruddy look on just about any 24p camera...

Noah
 
Also don't use the new build or you'll loose "grain"
 
I think it is a viable question and not so much about making stuff look bad. Right now if you push RED footage real hard and you want it to look raw, gritty and grainy it is going to look digital and blotchy. Not nice at all. I tried to my best to see if it was possible, even adding noise in post but it is just not going to work.

Noise and artefacts can be nice if you want something else than the super clean noise-free look that seems to be the standard for RED. So my hope as well for a better and nicer noise from Epic/Scarlet. Maybe less compression will help in that area.
 
I guess I'm pretty alone in this but I always liked the smeary Michael Mann look. Had a good look to it imo. I love the filmy grainy look too. But I love night scenes on video.
 
I'm a big fan of Mann's use of digital -- and I'm very excited for Public Enemies.

Here's RED footage shot at 2000 ISO: http://www.vimeo.com/3896923

There's noise there, sure, but it's not the kind of grainy, pointilist noise that Miami Vice has. Then again, that's a video of some abstracted furniture or something in a room, not the late-night Miami skyline. Also the image is very washed out -- not sure if that's a result of the high ISO or the lighting. Also, this was shot in 4K; perhaps at a lower resolution the noise would be clearer.

I'd like to see some high ISO, non-4K footage from the RED shot outdoors at night, preferably in a city. Then again, the Scarlet will have a different response to such conditions as the sensor is different and newer and 2/3", like the Viper Filmstream, so such footage from the RED might mean little.
 
I'm only half joking when I suggest this...

Get the new JVC HM700, it will give you that gritty, grainy look in low light whether you want it or not.
 
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but -- any new world on the grain front, rumors, whatever?
 
I just did a 30 minutes short, that was shot entirely on Viper with S-two back, which essentially records filmstream directly to an HD as DPXs. I personally found low light Viper performance to be better than RED, although not with the new RED color science. So, no worries on gritty, noisy look front. Just stay away from v.20 and up firmware:smile:
Tyler Rad Williamson said:
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but -- any new world on the grain front, rumors, whatever?
Click to expand...
 
Why this Caolinlin just copies people posts?

WTF... That's very weird.

I browsed his posts and he/she/it copies everything.

Damn bot! Just adds 'thanks for sharing' at the end.
 
All this really depends on the dynamic range of the Mysterium X sensor. If the sensor has substantially better low light sensitivity than the Viper, you will get less noise in low light situations. This is the ideal case for compressor, since noise takes a lot of bandwidth to reproduce, and for the shooter, since you can choose whether you want noise or not. Adding noise in post production is a trivial affair.

However, it is also easy to ensure the RAW footage is noisy by simply underexposing the image.
 
When I was watching Miami Vice, I kept wondering if they'd shot it on a handycam or something...It looked horrible in my opinion.
 
Yeah, just looked at the 1080 Miami Vice trailer from the Apple site. It looks like they shot it with my old Canon ZR60… heck spending money on the RED!
 

Attachments

  • mv.jpg
    mv.jpg
    18.8 KB · Views: 0
I acutally kinda' like that image. It's like grain in film (I don't know - 8mm or so) but this is just digital. It's like they're stating: This is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. And we are proud of this, we're not trying to hyde what's not good, because we just show it how it is. At least that's what I think about it.
And what is great about it (btw I'm not saying I don't like the good looking picture, 'cause boy-o-boy am I looking forward to the Scarlet release...) what is great about it is, it states that you can make decent films without the picture having to be perfect. Story means everything (haven't seen the movie so it might be crappy). I often get the feeling that people think that because their production includes a crane shot and a 35mm DOF it's gonna' be a fucking awsome, movie - but that's just not the case.
 
Get any 3-chips camera, go to any street at night, turn the gain to its maximum and magically you'll have the MIAMI VICE look.
 
Oh please, Miami Vice was hardly an artsy movie...

The gain just took me away from the story, and I ended up not caring much for the characters...

I tried to convince myself that the gain was for "artistic purposes", and maybe it was...but it just detracted from the experience in my honest opinion.

If it had been one of those fictitious "doco" style films (which it wasn't) then maybe I would have got into it a bit more.

It's like when someone draws three lines on a canvas, and everyone says it's a revolutionary idea...when really, it's just three lines. The only revolutionary thing about it, is that it brings out the hype people put into it.
 
Good to see you over on Reduser Ameer. I kinda like the grainy look though
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top