Red One Canon 5D Video Test

[Tom Lowe]

"Advanced tourist"? :smilielol5: Sanjin, you crack me up with these declarations!

 

[Kholi Hicks]

Probably just ignored the Aliasing. I don't know how else you could get around it, like the slow pan jello, other than making yourself feel better by saying "well if people are seeing that then the story must be bad".

=B

 

[Daniel Lipats]

Probably just ignored the Aliasing. I don't know how else you could get around it

Fixing the aliasing has been addressed hundreds of times across multiple forums, including this one. I'm surprised it keeps coming up.

1) Anti-moire filter removes aliasing without reducing resolution.
2) Diffusion will remove aliasing but reduce resolution.
3) Put the problem slightly out of focus. With a full frame sensor this is easy.

 

[David Nardini]

Fixing the aliasing has been addressed hundreds of times across multiple forums, including this one. I'm surprised it keeps coming up.

1) Anti-moire filter removes aliasing without reducing resolution.
2) Diffusion will remove aliasing but reduce resolution.
3) Put the problem slightly out of focus. With a full frame sensor this is easy.

Care to share more detail around (1) ... ideally with some before and after examples ?

I've tried the stills approach (guassian blur or median on layer and blend using colour mode) ... kind of fixes sometimes but not always ... hence the search for a consistent approach.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Says you.

I guess that's why Rodney Charters, the DP for the tv series "24", used a total of FIVE, 5D mkII's on the set of the new CBS pilot, "Washington Field".

He must not be serious.

"24" TV series need so often by its style, concept and genre always a bit "weird" video look that cameras like Canon 5Dmk2 or Pansonic GH1 fits perfect...

"Advanced tourist"? :smilielol5: Sanjin, you crack me up with these declarations!

Some of "advanced video tourists" (like me) don't care about a moire made by 5Dmk2:

Canon 5DMK2 with visible moire at test charts, find more at the link below

LINK>>>

but some another "advanced video tourists" care and have got Easyrig 3 cinema for easy handheld shooting

on mountains (Alps) this summer.

Easyrig 3 cinema costs about the same as Canon 5DMK2 but I decided to shoot with RED1 because it makes better pictures, it's a RAW,

shoots 4K, 3K, 2K, HD, 24 fps, 25 fps, 23.98 fps,...more, has slow motion 120 fps, more,... also long shooting possible with 320 GB drive, has CF card slot,

much easy to avoid camera shake at handheld, better sound, etc,...

My Easyrig just arrived!!!

 

[Daniel Lipats]

Care to share more detail around (1) ... ideally with some before and after examples ?

I can't say if it will remove all of it completely, but people have reported success with Caprock Anti-Moire filters. They come in 67mm and 4x4" with different strengths. Have not tested them all, or tested in detail but it does improve the image by removing both moire and aliasing. Waiting to get my hands on the 4.0 version, which should be the maximum strength.

http://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraFilters/229815/caprock-filters-antimoire-4x4-filter-40.aspx

 

[David Nardini]

I can't say if it will remove all of it completely, but people have reported success with Caprock Anti-Moire filters. They come in 67mm and 4x4" with different strengths. Have not tested them all, or tested in detail but it does improve the image by removing both moire and aliasing. Waiting to get my hands on the 4.0 version, which should be the maximum strength.

http://www.vistek.ca/store/CameraFilters/229815/caprock-filters-antimoire-4x4-filter-40.aspx

Ahhhhh well ... I have one of those right in my hands (4x4 - 4.0 strength) and it's not working for me ... brick work still looks like s**t (and yes, it does not affect sharpness that I can see).
Speaking with them there are stronger ones (2.x I believe) but unclear if it will work ... awaiting to hear back. I had hope you had another magic wand ;-)

And yes Sanjiin, my R1 is outstanding, absolutely happy with it ... however the 5Dii has it's uses ;-) ...

 

[Daniel Lipats]

Ahhhhh well ... I have one of those right in my hands (4x4 - 4.0 strength) and it's not working for me ... brick work still looks like s**t (and yes, it does not affect sharpness that I can see).
Speaking with them there are stronger ones (2.x I believe) but unclear if it will work ... awaiting to hear back.

Thanks for letting me know! Do you know if it's much better than the 5.6? I'll see if I can find a stronger one too.

 

[David Nardini]

Thanks for letting me know! Do you know if it's much better is it than 5.6? I'll see if I can find a stronger one too.

No idea, I simply aimed for the strongest 'as advertised' (5.6 is going the wrong way) it clearly needs to be less than 4.0. I spoke with www.caprockdev.com the other evening and we concluded to aim for the 4.0 and see what the outcome is before going lower

PS : I did warn him that if it works he may have a few enquiries ;-)

 

[Tom Lowe]

The 5D2's aliasing is not going to be fixed with simple filters. It's a major, major problem. I have had a number of amazing shots ruined by moire and various artifacts. Trying to shoot water, on a lake or ocean, during the golden part of magic hour is a disaster. I also had some nice Saguaro cactus shots ruined by moire.

 

[David Nardini]

The 5D2's aliasing is not going to be fixed with simple filters. It's a major, major problem. I have had a number of amazing shots ruined by moire and various artifacts. Trying to shoot water, on a lake or ocean, during the golden part of magic hour is a disaster. I also had some nice Saguaro cactus shots ruined by moire.

I agree 100% Tom ... this is my last 'push' to try a few options. Soft focus 'stuff' / no sharp edges and you're ok ... everything else BEWARE.

More importantly NOBODY seems to know if the GH-1 suffers in the same way ?!?! ...

[C'on RED lets have those small compact FF35 ;-) and put an end to our suffering]

 

[Daniel Lipats]

You can already completely remove aliasing with diffusion filters, the problem is they blur everything all at once.

Once you remove detail at a certain frequency (that the 5D can't resolve anyway) the moire is gone. Caprock filters at a high enough power should provide the solution.

GH-1 also has aliasing but to a lower degree.. Not to mention a collection of its own unique problems including "mud".

 

[Roberto B]

The 5D2's aliasing is not going to be fixed with simple filters. It's a major, major problem. I have had a number of amazing shots ruined by moire and various artifacts. Trying to shoot water, on a lake or ocean, during the golden part of magic hour is a disaster. I also had some nice Saguaro cactus shots ruined by moire.

man no water no cactus.. enough said?

 

[Ben Holmes]

I'm still trying to take in the insanity of 8 pages of discussion of web-compressed video being compared to RED footage. Based on web compressed footage.

The 5DII shoots h264. The RED shoots compressed RAW footage. As someone who is not a cinematographer, but an editor and QC specialist for broadcast, I cannot possibly imagine what you hope to achieve by comparing the two. In the post world, it's like comparing a tricycle with a Ferrari.

Please - can we accept this is a 'horses for courses' type of discussion and move on? It's just not a fair or useful comparison. It reminds me of a friend who was shooting Digibeta being harangued by a 'videographer' shooting on DVCAM. If you can't see the difference between the two acquisition formats, then by all means, get yourself a DVCAM camera...

 

[Rick Darge]

Did you download the 1080 file off of the Vimeo site?

That file is almost identical to the original file I spit out of FCP.

And yes, I find it a very useful comparison for those wanting to know just how the 5D cuts in with the Red. Seriously though, why do so many people knock the 5D as if it were some kind of threat? I find it amusing calling it a 'web camera' or a 'advanced tourist cam'. It shoots 1080p with DOF and dynamic range comparable to Red for 1/10 the cost! Nobody is saying it's BETTER. I just wanted to see how the two flavors compare to one another when you throw them in the mix.

I could have grabbed some $500 DVCAM and did the same comparison, but that would have made no sense. The 5D is very similar to the Red in a lot of ways. For one, both cameras can share the same Nikon lenses. Thus this test..

 

[albert rudnicki]

I Greatly appreciate your test Richard, I am in need for a low light capable "b" camera in upcoming weeks and the 5D being not "perfect" as it is, makes a Perfect cam for what I need.
Thanks again

 

[Rakesh Jacob]

Seriously though, why do so many people knock the 5D as if it were some kind of threat? I find it amusing calling it a 'web camera' or a 'advanced tourist cam'. It shoots 1080p with DOF and dynamic range comparable to Red for 1/10 the cost!

LOL because it is a threat, maybe not now but the next gen and the one after that, and because it IS 1/10th of the cost. "Hey some jackass on the interwebs thinks his $2700 toy can hang with my RED ONE? Who the fuck does he think he is?! Ima professional gol-dangit!!!!!"
:head_explode:

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Ben's answer is definitive. The fundamental problem lies in the limitations of the codec.

 

[Cristina S]

To repeat again that Canon 5DMk2 is quite good photo camera for web video compression apps (web commercials, touristic, wedding video, etc...) but not for serious HD application, feature or so...

How can you say it without fearing to look like a dork?

 

[Rick Darge]

Sanjin is fearless. That's why...

He's a true pirate..