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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

End slating

Editing a breeze?! LOL... just as easy as production. ;-)

Love the idea. More time for editing, less time for logging.

By the way, can't this tail slate then become a front slate - like the -default- name of the clip?

Scene-1.T2.Good
 
Greg Voevodsky said:
By the way, can't this tail slate then become a front slate - like the -default- name of the clip?
Click to expand...

That was the idea of the "Next" button on the lower left of image 1. You could go to the next clip (in this case the "to be recorded" clip and change the front slate for everything but the commentary (good, NG, etc)

That is pictured in one of the other pictures (can't see it at the moment) where it moves to take 2 but the length is 0:00.

Once the clip stops, you could change any of those values again, as well as set the commentary on the clip.

By the way, since doing the initial drawings, I have thought to rename the User button to be "Notes" and have things like "VFX, MOS, WILD" part of the cycled options as long as they can be discreatly set.
 
Big question though would be how you'd enter all that data. Perhaps a red(ized) data entry device ?
 
Scene, quality and notes would be incrementing/stepping by the buttons. Take would be auto incrementing. Timecode, camera number and detaliled shooting date/time are pretty straight forward.

The difficult stuff comes with show, director, etc.

One way would be a slow way like game consoles and home cameras enter text--one letter at a time. This may be okay as they won't change too often.

Many have mentioned a wireless pda link. While I would prefer a wireless link to a macbook that could also save thumbnails on the mac as well as prelogging the days shots maybe even against storyboards I could see how people would like a pda link.

Since it does have a usb port and I would bet the camera internally runs linux, it should be easy to get a keyboard working.

Many options, but, even without the long fields such as show title--i think scene, quallity and take would have great value.

Thom
 
Thom said:
By the way, since doing the initial drawings, I have thought to rename the User button to be "Notes" and have things like "VFX, MOS, WILD" part of the cycled options as long as they can be discreatly set.
Click to expand...

Cool. I was pretty sure there could be a simple way to incorporate the idea, thanks.

Thom said:
Since it does have a usb port and I would bet the camera internally runs linux, it should be easy to get a keyboard working.
Thom
Click to expand...

With the USB port, why not add compatibility for a USB Blue Tooth "stick". Just plug-in the jump-drive-sized Blue Tooth receiver, write a tiny custom app for Mac, PC, PDA, Cell phone, etc... and you've got a quick and easy way to have a Camera Assistant (or anyone) wirelessly log your clips...

(just better password protect it)
 
USB Stick Sneaker Net

USB Stick Sneaker Net

Casey Green said:
With the USB port, why not add compatibility for a USB Blue Tooth "stick". Just plug-in the jump-drive-sized Blue Tooth receiver, write a tiny custom app for Mac, PC, PDA, Cell phone, etc... and you've got a quick and easy way to have a Camera Assistant (or anyone) wirelessly log your clips...

(just better password protect it)
Click to expand...

That sounds like a great idea.

USB Sneaker Net

Another option, for syncing many cameras would be to be able to write the camera configuration (including the meta data) to a USB memory stick and go to the next camera and loading the configuration. Sort of a PA sneaker net.

DAISY CHAIN CAMERAS

Also, since the camera have USB in and out, it would be cool if you could connect them together USB Standard to USB Mini, in a chain. Then, they could sync their DateTime Timecode (discussed previously in this thread which I thought was a good idea--essentially haveing date and time with full 00:00:00:00 detail) as well as setting all of the meta data to from the first camera in the chain and stepping the Camera tag A,B,C,D...

While you are at it, it would be a good time to sync color profiles if you happen to be shooting RGB.
 
Well as far as data entry of such meta data....for the record on a shoot it is a full time job. However I really do like the idea of a wireless data capturer station for all of that info.
 
Some questions...

1- Would it just be easier to sort things out in post? The editor has to look at all the footage anyways, and make his/her own notes.

And the person doing the logging doesn't have to sit around on set. If you move it to post, the person doing the logging is always writing or looking at footage, and not waiting around.

2- A pen and paper system (or email) could be used to convey things like takes the director likes, it could integrate with audio notes, etc.

What advantage does digital slating have over pen and paper?
 
Bluetooth metadata input and all the rest of it would be nice, but here's a really simple idea that could probably be implemented with almost no work.

After each take, just have the camera pop up a sequential ID number. The operator would read it off. Whoever is keeping notes would write down the number, along with notes about the take (scene/shot, good/bad, etc.). This number would show up in the file name of the clip for that take on the digital mag.

This would allow for a wide variety of metadata handling techniques, ranging from writing down the ID number and notes about the take on a sheet of paper, to inputting the ID number and metadata into a program on a laptop, to be automatically attached to the appropriate files (by matching up the ID numbers) after footage was downloaded.

With the laptop approach, you wouldn't even usually have to manually input the number, as the program could just increment it automatically after every take.
 
big lebowski said:
Fewer errors and faster workflow.
Click to expand...

Fewer errors? I would say that's more an operator dependency. As for faster workflow, pen/paper can be pretty darn fast if you take a bit of time to set up some sheets before hand. I'd definitely give digital a try... However, such slating seems more like a great task done on PDA or notebook computer rather than right on the camera. A WiFi SD card could theoretically be used with the RED One and that could give access to metadata for each shot that can be dealt with instantly on a PDA or similar device. Rather than having the camera operator do it or having someone else in his way doing it on camera.
 
Something that would be great is if REDCINE could output a Text file of all the metadata in the end slates so I could print it on regular paper for reference. Call it a "Log book" feature. I can't tell you how many times that saved my butt in post. When shooting our feature on MiniDV, we were very careful to do a clapboard with slate before every shot, but also wrote down every scene, take, description, best & good & bad status on paper, along with audio info, dates, timecode, etc. We ended up with a huge binder with all the information on paper. Being able to have that as reference, regardless of the immediacy of the digital slate, would be a very welcome adddition to the workflow.

Would something like this be possible? Does anything I wrote even make sense?
 
Chris Kenny said:
After each take, just have the camera pop up a sequential ID number. The operator would read it off. Whoever is keeping notes would write down the number, along with notes about the take (scene/shot, good/bad, etc.). This number would show up in the file name of the clip for that take on the digital mag.
Click to expand...

That's just one more number to keep track of. And you'd have to enter an initial value anyway so that you don't have overlapping ID ranges in multi cam shoots.

I think it should be no biggy to enter the scene number in the camera. And after that it will count the takes by its own.
 
Glenn Chann is right.
There's already usually someone taking careful notes: the Script Supervisor. And they're often quite good at it, multitasking, following the script, listening to dialogue, watching the monitor, taking camera notes. But automation (lens data info via Arri LDS or Cooke i, anyone?) and digitization of metadata would no doubt be amazing compared to paper notes.
External input, whether via wireless or USB, would be great. On anything other than an talking head interview, the DP and AC are too busy to twiddle knobs and step through windows inputting metadata. So a keyboard seems appropriate here. A bit clunky I guess if we're busy programming speed ramps and changing lenses, running and gunning, etc.
But a script super, armed with a laptop (running Scriptor or one of the other programs) that uploaded shot info into metadata within each clip, via Bluetooth, would be a terrific marriage of technology and craft.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Just remembered:
I have done a few jobs with ARRI's in-camera slating module, that exposes slate info on the first 20 frames of film each time you roll the camera. Really bizzare looking in dailies, but very cool...
It's inputted via a Palm-type devide and keeps track of takes.
Was not really a big deal, even with us running around a school filming kids on the go. You can plug/ unplug at any time and the camera continues to keep track.
It also provided for ARRICODE, so no clapping of slates at all.
But no real way to accomodate metadata. (film-based, obviously)
But the scrip super, running Scriptor and synced with our time of day code, had a running metadata file.
With Red One, we have a chance to combine all of the technology and really have great shot management and notes for the editor.
Cheers,
Harry
 
End slating

A technique known as “end slating” was used to capture Paul’s reaction as he enters the nearly-vacant Club Berlin. Right before filming the shot, Griffin Dunne went to a bar around the corner, ordered drinks for the customers, then ran out without paying. The scene opens on him after this had just happened off-camera.

I really like the general idea of this: capturing a person during or after something particularly fearful or extraordinary. I wonder if this has other practical purposes beyond filmmaking, like perhaps interaction design (since, in theory, it is a designed interaction). Any thoughts or ideas? Although it is mentioned in this imdb entry, the term has no other mentions on the web, which seems kind of odd.
 
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