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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EOS 5DmkII users rejoice!

I'm not so sure about that. 60D will cost 1'500$ by offering about the same capabilities as Mark II (apart from the APS-C sensor). Around this time next year we probably will see RAW for 2k$ at 1080 if not sooner. Red probably can't compete with this price tag as long Jim doesn't jeopardize all his fortune. They can throw away their bodies while printing lens-money if they choose to. Red is a premium company like Apple. But the lower end products as scheduled are more or less there to sell you the higher goods afterwards. That's the idea behind all the modularity. I have my doubts if this lower end Scarlets will see the light of the day, if you look at the current rattle of the big three and the current economic climate. Most of us shoot with whatever we can afford. Of course there are a few DPs who will buy Scarlets. But that's not the big chunk. Director's don't care. Mark II is good enough to show if an idea works out. Hobbyists won't care. Photojournalists. No question what they will choose.. So where is the 2/3 heading exactly?
 
Yannick Hagman said:
I'm not so sure about that. 60D will cost 1'500$ by offering about the same capabilities as Mark II (apart from the APS-C sensor). Around this time next year we probably will see RAW for 2k$ at 1080 if not sooner.
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I'm not so sure about this. Still Raw vs. Motion ("Red") Raw is a very different thing. Red has put a lot of work into making a motion Raw work in a production pipeline, and I'm sure has protected the hell out of it with patents.

I don't think it is that easy of a lunch to eat--even for the big guys, technically or legally.

Don't underestimate what an achievement Red Raw is--it is game changing in so many ways--to think it will commoditize so quickly, I think, is a bit of a stretch.

I think the only way we'll see Raw for 2k$ next year is if Jim changes his mind on pricing scarlet.
 
It seems pretty clear to me. If you need a camera right now and don't mind the aforementioned issues, then go with the Canon. Like Tom pointed out, it is a dream come true for many shooters; if you shoot a lot of stills, and need 30p video do documentary style work, then the Canon is a clear winner. The low light performance is stunning. For documentary work where you have a lot of still shots (talking heads, landscapes, wildlife..etc...) this is a good option despite the skewing.

For independent cinema use at the lowest level however, I am not as sure. If I had to get a camera right now for cinema use, it probably wouldn't be the Canon. AS much as I like this camera and it's potential, the cons still outweigh the pros for cinema use. The trade off is clearly a large sensor size (DOF) and lens selection VS a prosumer video camera that is built for motion and audio, and doesn't have the limitations of the Canon. To me, I'd take the latter over the former, as I'd suspect most indie filmmakers would at this point.

This is why I think 2/3 Scarlet will be the best option if it comes out sooner than later. Its specs and price are hands down better than any prosumer cam on the market and forthcoming (0fficially, not rumored). Until the DSLRs get the skew and frame rate options sorted out, I just don't see them being used widely for motion work as much as prosumer cams that already dominate the market. The video mode still strikes me as simply a cool factor to have when you're shooting stills, but not as a camera I'd shoot a low budget movie on yet. :mellow:
 
Now that the 5D2 has manual controls, it should fine for low-end cinema work. The main thing you have to watch out for is moire patten and other artifacts caused by the line skipping. Aside from that, lack of overcranking, and perhaps the audio-sync issue, it should be suitable for most low-budget cine-style work.
 
I really dont know why we get stuck in this "either/OR" game. As a current Red One owner, and future owner of EpicX and probably a few Scarlets, I'm still drooling over a 5dmk2 and would whip out the CC if they add 24p and still might without it. Why? Well let's see
-Awesome stills. Very important for loads of reasons, my current DSLR is a 20d.
-Portability, I could take this up a ski lift, I wouldnt do that with Red.
-Sneakiness, as Tom mentioned, you can renegade stuff with this cam.
-Water!! I'm no scuba diver, but I'd love to tumble in the rivers, I sure as hell wont do that with Red, but the 5dmk2? Full on housing for $1500 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597862-REG/Ikelite_6871_02_6871_02_eTTL_Housing_f_.html
-Timelapse, ever since Tom permanently ruined me with his video, I've been wanting to get some timelapse stuff. While I know Red can, this is far more portable and better at getting stars
-Low light.
-Use of my existing EF lens stockpile for cinema without the hassle of changing out a mount on my Red
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Wow, a few Scarlets. Damn, you're going to have quite the arsenal there my friend.
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hehe, here's the ultimate plan. So I have Red and will soon be getting the RPPs, then EpicX when it ships. After that, somehow go knock over a few more banks and get the Scarlet S35. Then that way the Scarlet S35 becomes defacto "Backup Body" to the EpicX, giving me better rental and security of mind when I'm shooting my own stuff. Or, since the RPPs are 5 lenses, I could do dual cam on all my projects, slowly building a more complete 2-cam setup as money avails.

I have little to no interests in the FF lineup unless I suddenly have tons of money or an EpicX to Monstro upgrade path is revealed.
 
It is great that Canon is finally getting to a point where they have to do this, but I can not buy one until I can move the camera around and the picture doesn't skew.
end of story.
 
Just bought my Canon 5D!!! I love the size and weight and the fact that it is a dSLR so I can get by with all my sneaky shooting
 
Richard Darge said:
Just bought my Canon 5D!!! I love the size and weight and the fact that it is a dSLR so I can get by with all my sneaky shooting
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Somehow I think your sneaky shooting will look a lot better than a lot of stuff out there. You got skilz!
 
Haha thanks Steve! Going out tonight to play with it.. I'll see if I can post something..
 
Great looking 5DmkII images.

Great looking 5DmkII images.

Check out this video: http://www.vimeo.com/4685373


For the record I don't think the 5DMKII has anywhere near the image quality that the RED One is capable of capturing but this is damn good looking stuff.

What I really see is the potential of the RED modular system to be everything I need/want in a camera.

I like the size of the 5D for staying low profile in certain situations and the ability to run a light weight rig for Steadicam type setups. Yet, the ability to grow an EPIC/SCARLET into many different configurations fulfills the original idea behind the RED One.

Give me an EPIC that has a FF35 sensor, Redcode Raw, ability to be configured for many shooting scenarios including using DSLR type lenses, a Red Rocket processor for post, Red Ray for delivery, RED's excellent customer service and the RedUser.net community and I'm happy. We're so close.
 
Benni Diez said:
Now wake up, Nikon!!!
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Yes, Goddamnit, WAKE UP!

I know the firmware update was addressed by "someone who got a customer services e-mail" last month or so...where is it?

We have 24p, im happy. Im sure that you don't need magic pixies to eke out manual control over what the camera ALREADY does. Im not going to be optimistic and ask for a better bitrate or a capture process that doesn't include pixel binning, no. Just let me control iso and shutter angle please...
 
Tom said:
The 5D2 is absolutely perfect for documentary filmmaking and interviews.
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I feel neutral actually about scarlet vs. 5D II but I'd love to know what about a 12 min record limitation makes the 5D perfect for documentary interviews? This is one of the bigger sticking points for me along with audio when it comes to making docs with a DSLR.
 
casey, i am not experienced with shooting documentary interviews, but couldn't you just hit record again while interviewing? it takes like 1 second. you don't have to switch cards or anything. i guess the fear is that someone would be in the middle of talking when it stops? I can see that as a problem, you're right.

Canonrumors reporting today that 24p is on the way:

“The 5D MarkII will have 24p, it is already in a firmware running in testing. It was not released due to time but it was planned to be released with the manual control. This is not as easy as some people tend to believe. The codec data rate has 6 frames of spare bandwidth and the file size was still the same as the 30p in the cam I tested. They have to re-code the compression routine in order to run at full speed and not waste file size. This has introduced some problems in stability because the chip can only handle 30p natively and this is basically a hack. No Audio control planned or in the firmware as of yet.
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This is listed as a rumor, though. Not confirmed.
 
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