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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony Vegas 9 & R3d

Roberto Lequeux said:
Most definitely Most. :)

I am going to do some research on AFFs out of V9 which comes out tomorrow. I am not locked in, just bored and over-exited. :beer:

I was going to ask you or Chip to check if Scratch would read one.
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No, Scratch does not import AAF files.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I just called Sony and they don't even know what Scratch is. Thought they were "supposed" to.

So can Vegas put out an AAF readable by Scratch? I am just trying to get to the bottom of this and find out if I can edit a feature on V9, then have a colorist grade it for m without having to spend some of my money on him trying to get the thing to work.

:huh:
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I guess Scratch isn't the only thing they haven't heard. Apparently, CMX 3600 is another:)
 
macgregor said:
If vegas can output 10bits QTs, AVIs, and DPX, i don´t see the need of using AE. I often do the color grading inside VEgas, even when i have a Scratch Suit just on the left screen. I like to color grade at the same time i´m editing, so i´d rather finish the project inside Vegas than dealing with conforming and so on. ...
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I guess what I'm failing to understand is if Vegas can render to very high quality 4:4:4, why bother conforming to bring footage into SCRATCH?

Why not just bring the Vegas render into SCRATCH?

I guess what I'm also failing to understand is if there is any advantage to using Vegas over CS4? I imagine Vegas has better audio, but CS4 should be considerably faster.
 
Most can answer the 4:4:4 render into Scratch much better than I could. But Vegas over CS4 is because if Vegas can handle 4:4:4 RBG 1080p then it is fast enough to use with a Red Rocket, and that is all I need. Also, I am used to it so I can hit the ground running.

In MY opinion Adobe has a pole up their behinds when it comes to GUIs. I've never used Premiere but I hear its interface is much like PS and AE. Once you know it it is great, though you have to do a few extra steps for some things than you would in Vegas. So I hear. But the real reason for me, is that I don't want to be working on the NLE, I want to work on the movie. For me, that means tying to find a way to work in Vegas if possible, otherwise FC, maaaaaaaybe Avid, no other options. Or finding a way to afford an Editor long enough to have him work on a final cut for the movie so I don't have to re-create a 96min timeline in order to pick up where he walked off. That would mean I can have him edit the movie, with me in the room once he's had a real chance to show me what he thinks is the best cut, and then render out the whole thing into a nice 1080p for me to use while working on the dialogue, sound design, color decisions, VFX and score.

I hope there is a good way for FC to feed an EDL to V9... I would think that is far more likely than finding a way to work with Scratch.

In the coming weeks I'll be looking into the compatibility between Vegas FC and Scratch... I just hope I can find a way to work on all three.
 
Eki Halkka said:
EDL's don't carry that info, but you can also export in XML, which is a "human readable" file that should have all effects etc. info embedded - not sure how well it will translate to other software though, never used it. Same goes with AAF files (not human readable though).
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On the contrary, EDL can carry the color information, if it also contain an ASC CDL. Pretty much every color grading software, that is less than 2 years old can read it.
 
BobbyMurcerFan said:
I guess what I'm failing to understand is if Vegas can render to very high quality 4:4:4, why bother conforming to bring footage into SCRATCH?

Why not just bring the Vegas render into SCRATCH?
Click to expand...

There would be couple of reasons not to do that. First, why would you want to waste considerable time rendering something, when Scratch can read R3D files directly and can conform the timeline from the EDL. This way you're not stuck with some questionable color grading decisions of the editor and would be free to use the full range of the original R3D files. And don't forget, colorist would have to spend time "notching" your rendered timeline, before he can start the grade, which can be very time consuming, as well as, don't forget, costly:)
 
jake4n said:
On the contrary, EDL can carry the color information, if it also contain an ASC CDL. Pretty much every color grading software, that is less than 2 years old can read it.
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Thanks for the info - my knowledge on the subject is certainly dated.

On a vast majority of stuff that runs through my hands nowadays, i do grading etc. myself, either on Vegas or AE, and deliver the final master. I haven't really used/needed EDL:s much in years. When i've worked on stuff that ends up being graded elsewhere, it's usually been just image sequences back and forth, no EDL info. And as said, in the occasional cases where i've needed to export an EDL from Vegas, the simple one track CMX 3600 edl that's supported by the included script has been enough.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I assume DMC3600 is the script mentioned before?
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Yep.

Has anyone downloaded V9 yet? Anyone care to test out .r3d's and post back?
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I just installed Vegas 9 on my XP64 machine - the link for 64bit Vegas on Sony web site points to 32bit installer (DOH!) so i only have tried that so far.

On the first run, Vegas 9 seemed a little buggy - menus etc. displayed weirdly, effects buttons didn't work etc. Closing and reopening Vegas seemed to fix that. The layout and color scheme have changed but i quickly revert to my preferred layout...

My machine is a 8 core E5345 Xeon running at 2,33Ghz, with 8GB ram and Geforce GTX 285 display card. I have two 7200 rpm hard drives as a 0-raid (right now the raid is uncomfortably full, so it's a bit slow and might be my bottleneck).

The .r3d performance is "usable". I get real time 25fps playback from 3K r3d files at 940*540 preview size and smaller, even with primary and secondary color correction running. 4K r3d files play back at around 20 fps at that size. 2K preview is around 10 fps. 4K is... well, slow.

Adjusting the clip properties (color etc.) doesn't seem to slow things down - there's more or less the same settings available as with redcine (curves are replaced with sliders that have similar functions).

The processors are running at around 30% usage, so it seems vegas can't take full advantage of all 8 cores - the multiprocessor setting in the preferences tops at 4 processors. If it did, even 2K probably would be realtime. It will be interesting to hear how newer i7 processor machines work with r3d files - my workstation is a bit old after all... also, the 64bit version would possibly be better - i'll report more on that when it's actually available for download.

Next, i'll try to install to my laptop and see how it performs...
 
Playing with the 64bit Demo now. The editing performance is impressive, considering. I have a 4k timeline going with 2 R3D tracks on top of each other on an overlay along with color correction, curves, glow, defocus & glint FX plus a dissolve into another R3D file and it's playing near real-time on "Good" preview(even on the full screen). I expected MAJOR stuttering, but did not get it.

Rendering to a 1080p mp4 is somewhat slow. A one minute sequence with the aformentioned FX etc is roughly 35 minutes on an i7 920 with 12mb ram. I also noticed that while it's using all 8 cores, it's not maxing them out.

Also, to access metadata you have to select the clip in the project manager and set "Final file properties".

I'll need more time with 9 before I comment on final encode quality, but I'm happy with it so far. Hell, it's lightyears beyond anything I've used in regards to working with Red footage.
 
Kaz said:
I expected MAJOR stuttering, but did not get it.
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Considering I'm getting major stuttering in FCP right now after I did a Log and Transfer with "native" as the chosen codec and waiting (and waiting) for the transcode forever I'd have to say Sony has the edge.
 
Eki Halkka said:
Next, i'll try to install to my laptop and see how it performs...
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4K timeline, quarter quality draft (512*288) preview works in real time on my three year old laptop. Damn, it's plenty good enough for offline editing me sez, esp. when you can always check the full rez for focus etc., even if it's not in real time.

Cool!

PS. on this machine, no hiccups with the install - everything worked OK right out the box.
 
Eki Halkka said:
4K timeline, quarter quality draft (512*288) preview works in real time on my three year old laptop. Damn, it's plenty good enough for offline editing me sez, esp. when you can always check the full rez for focus etc., even if it's not in real time.

Cool!

PS. on this machine, no hiccups with the install - everything worked OK right out the box.
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This is great news. Looks like I'm making a purchase soon.

By the way, my 1080p mp4 came out excellent. My next stress test will be matte/compositing with native Red footage. This is where I sometimes have stability issues with Vegas. I'll do everything I can to crash this program. Hope it holds up.


That be "File format properties".
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Correct. Sorry, I was rendering at the time and couldn't double check that.
 
macgregor said:
Color space setting doesn´t seem to work (always 709, bad). ANd crashes the program.

I´d like to know what resampling filter VEgas is using.
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You're right, Mac. Though I'm not getting any crashes. Gamma seems unaffected. I guess an email to their support is due.
 
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