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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rent, rip and return - Hollywood, RealNetworks square off on DVD copying

Steam is a fantastic example. I bought GTA 3 or something like that off steam a few months ago for less than the price of a movie ticket. Instant download and play. Very cool. The movie industry should pay attention to Steam.
 
Tom said:
I have not purchased a CD in like 8 years -- ever since Napster. I used to buy dozens of them every year.
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I was the opposite during the Napster years. But that is because I am somewhat of an audiophile. I was exposed to so much more new music than I would have been without Napster. And since 128kbps mp3 files didn't cut it on my B&W Nautilus 802's, I would order the CD online.
 
Wow Gavin. Thanks for the posts. Very interesting.

Not that I'm an expert on these things, but I think the best way to combat piracy isn't with legislation or litigation (which tends to rile up the transgressors), but rather with affordable convenience.

I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I've downloaded TV rip torrents from the net. But without a DVR, it was the only way I could watch some of my favorite shows with my schedule. But then Hulu took off and offered decent streaming programs on-line. Now Youtube too. Very convenient, so I'm willing to sit through a few ads. The cost / convenience ratio was good.

I think this is one reason why the net neutrality battle is so fierce. Imagine if big industry controlled the best fiber optic lines. They could offer basically instant access to media content while P2P would be mired in speed bottlenecks. I support net neutrality on principle, but I wonder if tiered service wouldn't help our industry combat piracy more.

It's a complicated issue. I'm glad I'm not an executive right now.

Eric
 
adkimery said:
Where does it say they are talking about profit?


-A
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Well I guess it depends on your definition of profit. I assume all of those games have payed themselves off already. So every $ made is $ going to profit - a few bucks for bandwidth.

This as opposed to saying that they sold 3000% 'more games'. They sold 3000% more dollars worth of games. So they aren't saying we sold 30x more games. They're saying they sold 30x * (1/saleamount) copies of games.

In other news since my DVR breaking I've started watchign 100% of my colbert and daily show through their respective websites. And it looks as good as SD Comedy central. I watch more ads now than I did on my DVR.
 
BluRay is a complete ripoff. RedRay could blow them out of the water by simply NOT being so God damned greedy.

"The Cost of Doing Blu-ray Business

With its slew of legal agreements, upfront charges, recurring fees, and other imperatives, BD replication is a time-consuming, expensive, and all-around frustrating proposition for small- and medium-sized publishers.

Quantitatively speaking, for 1,000 copies of a simple title, all these demands add at least $7.54 overhead to the price of a single disc (calculated as a one-shot deal). Based on my earlier examples, this works out to roughly $11-12 (SL) to $13-14 (DL) each for a finished product. Ordering more units and amortizing the one-time and annual fees over multiple titles and years will dramatically reduce these estimated figures, but cost-efficient replication is, obviously, geared toward frequent high-volume production."

LINK
 
Bluray has to rip people off because Sony bankrupted themselves to win the HD DVD war, by literally giving hundreds of millions of dollars, IN CASH, to the studios to bribe them.

REDray would have no such legacy cost.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Yeah but REDRay *would* require $1,000 in hardwrae.
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Well, hell, Bluray players were even more than that when they first came out. Hopefully Jim will let other hardware manufacturers build REDray devices.
 
Well, here in Mexico, the whole CD-DVD story is a little different. 10 years ago I would buy around a movie a month (laserdisc) and 2-3 CD's. Back then DVD's and laserdiscs were expensive U$20-30 and CD's around the same. But then, something happened, don't ask me what because I have no idea, but today DVD's are dirt cheap over here. Original 100% legit DVD's at the store. Some titles you can get for as low as 3 bucks. Meanwhile, CD's have remained at the same cost and nowadays compilation CD's are almost non existant. Let's face it, most albums have a song or two you actually like, and 10 dollars a song is a little steep. So today, I buy around one CD every 5 years (must be something really special) and 10-15 DVD's a month.

Btw... We have cheaper movie theater tickets over here as well. For around 10 dollars a month you get a membership to get into as many movies as you want. Unlimited cinema at the theater for 10 bucks. For 10 extra you get unlimited IMAX and VIP entries thrown in. VIP screens are something like what Tom said: Waiters, cocktails, leather recliner seats, etc...

Actually, it's a very clever scheme: movie theater chains want you to sign up on their membership so you'll attend their theaters exclusively. This insures every dollar you spend on popcorn/sodas/etc... will be theirs and not their competition's. It also makes those with paid membership convince their friends to attend the chain where they hold their membership when attending a film together. Regular tickets are like 4 dollars for regular screens, 6 for Imax and 8 for VIP.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Well I guess it depends on your definition of profit. I assume all of those games have payed themselves off already. So every $ made is $ going to profit - a few bucks for bandwidth.
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Maybe gross revenue would be a better term to use than profit since we don't all of the costs they have to cover (and bandwidth on a large scale is more than just a few bucks)? Left 4 Dead is a very big hit so I think it's safe to assume all the initial costs (development, marketing, etc.,) have been covered, but there are still continuing costs such as tech support, patches, dlc, etc.. Left 4 Dead being a hit game allows Valve to have the occasional loss leading sale but that doesn't mean it's viable for everyone nor does it mean that selling the product at a bargain-basement price from launch is a viable business model either.

It's kinda like when NIN and Radiohead released pay-optional albums over the internet. Sure, it might work for them but that's only after nearly 20 years of garnering a massive world wide following, earning 10's, if not 100's, of millions of dollars, and selling music the 'old fashioned' way. ;)


-A
 
Absolutely. The converse is also true though. I only pay bargain basement prices for things which are unproven. Once proven then I'll pay extra.

Millions of people are willing to pay $1. Thousands are willing to pay $10.

I would say there is an inverse bell curve of profitability. Charge a bunch and extract as much as you can from your target demographic which will spend regardless. (Opening day launch syndrome). or Charge nothing and get exponentially more customers who are willing to make an insubstantial risk to try you. Or even purchase you for show. (Netflix Classic Movie Queue syndrome.)

I would say most people ride down the middle territory too often and don't charge enough to break even from their captive audience but still charge outside the range of an impulse buy.

The only way you can fight piracy is to grab the impulse buy.
 
Theater membership? Very cool! They would stand to make a lot of money on concessions from repeat viewers, including cocktails and beer!

Plus the local taxi cab guys can rake in profits from shuttling home smashed moviegoers... it's a win-win. :thumbsup:
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Absolutely. The converse is also true though. I only pay bargain basement prices for things which are unproven. Once proven then I'll pay extra.

Millions of people are willing to pay $1. Thousands are willing to pay $10.

I would say there is an inverse bell curve of profitability. Charge a bunch and extract as much as you can from your target demographic which will spend regardless. (Opening day launch syndrome). or Charge nothing and get exponentially more customers who are willing to make an insubstantial risk to try you. Or even purchase you for show. (Netflix Classic Movie Queue syndrome.)

I would say most people ride down the middle territory too often and don't charge enough to break even from their captive audience but still charge outside the range of an impulse buy.

The only way you can fight piracy is to grab the impulse buy.
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People do love things on sale. I don't know if Best Buy still does this, but they used to sell new release CDs at a 20-25% discount for like the first week they were out and when BB was my main source of music I would always pick them up during that sale period. If I missed the sale period then I'd be less likely to buy the CD (or at least less likely to buy multiple CDs at a time).

There is a line though between making people feel like they are getting a good deal and making people feel like your product is crap which is why you are asking so little for it. I do agree that most sellers stay middle of the road to play it safe. To bring up Steam again, they are having a Left 4 Dead free Friday tomorrow where people can get a free copy of the game that expires after 24hrs.


-A
 
We have cinema memberships here in England as well, at the cineworld chain:
LINK

The cheaper option excludes the best cinemas in central London. I go for the more expensive one at £16 a month.

Im kicking myself for not doing this sooner. As of late I've been watching every movie I can get my hands on. On average, unless im on a shoot or it's a gruelling post deadline i go watch 4 films a week.

Hell, I saw Knowing projected digitally, walked out and bought another ticket to watch the first 20 minutes from the front row to see if there was any noise or aliasing.

Same with Che, except I went to one film print and sat half way through a digital showing.

I also bought a whole bunch of Watchmen tickets...not that it did much good, apparently.
 
As for DVD pricing, I'm always taken aback by the price of an indie DVD. You know, a film that was a favorite on the festival circuit--I read about it online and wanna see it. But it never comes to a fest in my city. And then a couple years later I come across it on DVD for $35. I just won't spend $35 just to see the movie once. Often the film isn't that good! I do want to support artists. But would probably support a lot more of them to the tune of $12 a pop and not $35.
 
Or maybe have a free downloadable SD version and sell a Blu-ray for $35. That way you still get the cash from your true fans (nobody else was going to pay that much in the first place), and hopefully you have more true fans because more people have seen your movie thanks to the free download.
 
Here's a refreshingly productive attitude about the piracy issue, from the CEO of a game publishing company:

"Demigod debuts at #3 for top selling PC games at retail – bearing in mind that that was a partial week and that the majority of units sold were digital sales which weren’t counted.

But...but...what about those hundreds of thousands of pirates? Yep. Demigod is heavily pirated. And make no mistake, piracy pisses me off. If you’re playing a pirated copy right now, if you’re one of those people on Hamachi or GameRanger playing a pirated copy and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you’re a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way.

The reality that most PC game publishers ignore is that there are people who buy games and people who don’t buy games. The focus of a business is to increase its sales. My job, as CEO of Stardock, is not to fight worldwide piracy no matter how much it aggravates me personally. My job is to maximize the sales of my product and service and I do that by focusing on the people who pay my salary – our customers." Link

The game is sold without DRM.
 
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