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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Uh oh, guys

Yeah I'm also assuming that is sarcasm.

This new Pana Cam is not going to make a dent in RED today.
All I want to say is that you should keep your mind open to new things RED or not. And NOT see new products as "the bad guy".

Otherwise you are putting yourself in a box and I hope most of us agree that is a bad thing.

After that being said. RED sill takes the cake.

ZZ
 
Right on, Zach.

All new product announcements should be viewed with an open mind. I'm not sure what to make of the Panny 3D concept. It's cool that they're hinting of such a thing for the prosumer market, but it's hard to know just what they're trying to say or do with that concept. To me it seems more like a gimmick than a real product, but the fact that they're marketing people or product designers are even going in that direction is really a good thing.

4:4:4 AVC Ultra at 200Mbps is nice too, a very welcome addition.
 
I'm normally really excited by innovation in our field, but 3D just hasn't grabbed me yet. I understand its financial implications for the industry as a whole, but as a consumer, I hope it doesn't become prevalent in its current form. I saw Monsters vs. Aliens in 3D, and instead of being amazed, I was distracted by the clunky glasses and 3D effect. Maybe I'll change my mind when autostereoscopic displays become more financially feasible. But right now, I'd honestly prefer a 2D Panny cam with AVC-Ultra that didn't record to proprietary media. Or, I've heard rumors about this new camera from a cigar-smoking, bearded madman that might be interesting...
 
I understand exactly what the camera will do, it's the same concept as the concept Canon XL1 3D lens. On that, there were two lenses crammed into one bulky shell and they were set on a small bridge that could be adjusted to get the right occular distance. Granted, at the time, the 3D lens was designed to work for interlace-only video.

Panasonic, on the other hand, is doing the same thing but, due to the progressive issue, is cramming two sensors into the camera in addition to the "Wall-E"-esque lenses you see on the front. So, in effect, this is an ideal compact 3D camera because not only will you be able to adjust the occular distance on a set scale within the lens shell, but you will also get individual images from each sensor, so if you wanted 2D you should be able to get either left or right eye and, thus, still have a useful everyday use P2 camera for projects that don't require 3D or in situations (ie. TV) where 3D isn't necessary.

Now, what this solution doesn't provide is the flexibility of a double camera system, whether side-by-side or prism. With a prism setup, you can have as much occular distance as you want and side-by-side can be adjusted for various wide or narrow shots, to a degree, but with this you're always going to be stuck within a certain range.

This is much like the difference between single, usually one boom, and multi-source sound, where you can have your lavalier mic on one channel and a boom on the other. However, what this Panasonic camera is turns out to basically be is single source stereo.

We know RED is aiming for the side-by-side and prism route, however, it would be very nice to have a compact setup like this for various reasons including those listed above. I'm sure RED could work up another all-in-one Scarlet brain to accommodate this somehow in addition to their current plans. The only special thing that would need to be done is the lens part and that would have to be done with, I'm assuming Panasonic is using the same design as Canon did, two individual lenses, probably the 2/3" all-in-one kit zoom lens, and the internal pass-through prism(s) that connects them, if there needs to be of course. Voila! Instant compact 3D Scarlet! However, the Mysterium X/Monstro sensors are obviously incredibly different than what Panasonic is using so cramming two of those into one body for this purpose could be a challenging task.
 
Eric Strunz said:
I'm normally really excited by innovation in our field, but 3D just hasn't grabbed me yet. I understand its financial implications for the industry as a whole, but as a consumer, I hope it doesn't become prevalent in its current form. I saw Monsters vs. Aliens in 3D, and instead of being amazed, I was distracted by the clunky glasses and 3D effect. Maybe I'll change my mind when autostereoscopic displays become more financially feasible. But right now, I'd honestly prefer a 2D Panny cam with AVC-Ultra that didn't record to proprietary media. Or, I've heard rumors about this new camera from a cigar-smoking, bearded madman that might be interesting...
Click to expand...

I took my son to see M vs A in 3D and he was blown away. As was I! I have never seen my son so excited when leaving a film, and we see a lot of films together. I can't even remotely overstate the smile on his face. He immediately asked to see it again for days afterward. He was so geeked out!

No offense, but since I saw the film, I can't understand anyone that doesn't think it's the best thing since sliced bread. At least for animation. (and I was a skeptic) I saw a trailer for Astro Boy and my first thoughts were that if it wasn't 3D I wasn't interested. Honest.

Chris
 
Well, it would have to be double sensored to make sense unless Panasonic wanted to cap themselves in the foot twice by making it interlace-only and prism split 4:3 aspect ratio. If that were the case, then this would be utterly useless in today's filmmaking world and we would all be better of with the side-by-side and prism 3D rigs we're gearing up for already.

As far as CMOS or CCD goes, I have no idea, but you have to ask yourself, if it were single sensor, how could it work with progressive footage? The 3D Full HD system gets both left and right eye images to record simultaneously. How could it get both if it ends up being one 16:9 image? The answer is that it would have to be double sensors in one camera body. This isn't far fetched at all, everything inside the camera just has to be synched up to turn on at the same time and the P2 cards would record both streams at once. Do remember that the image being shown is just a concept camera, it's not what the thing will actually look like, at least not 100%. Panasonic might have to take a step back to a fatty HVX200-esque body instead of the somewhat sleaker HPX170.

Now, if Panasonic did make it single sensor with a 4:3 prism split, then they will surely need to provide either an anamorphic attachment, make the lenses natively anamorphic, or worse, crop each 4:3 image to 16:9 for both left and right eye. The only other option that could possibly happen is that they increase the sensor size dramatically or at least use smaller lenses and basically give the lenses a canvas-like sensor to move around in and thus preserve a 16:9 image for both lenses, record both images at the same time, and provide enough resolution for both so that each could stand up on their own as a single 2D video stream. But that's going to the extreme and there are probably a dozen technical reasons why that wouldn't work or would be really less than ideal (ie. band-aid solution for 3D video). Plus, if they gave a bigger sensor to work with, why not just make a bigger sensor camera and sell that? There are options though, they could go 4/3" size and give us some DOF too or they could go all the way and do a 35mm full frame CMOS sensor solution. However, that would change the camera's audience dramatically and I'm not sure if Panasonic wants to make that leap or not because if they gave us a full on 4/3" or 35mm-sized sensor camera, the big question would then be why they didn't do it before?
 
KnockOutFilms said:
I took my son to see M vs A in 3D and he was blown away. As was I! I have never seen my son so excited when leaving a film, and we see a lot of films together. I can't even remotely overstate the smile on his face. He immediately asked to see it again for days afterward. He was so geeked out!
Click to expand...

Monsters vs. Aliens was a hoot. My son, almost 4, has been obsessing about it for over 2 weeks now since seeing it. After we saw it, we're walking out and the first thing he wanted to do was go straight to the store and buy it. Anyway, it was better than the previews made it look and we had a lot of fun. My daughter (6) wasn't as enthralled with it, but she still had a good time. On the other hand, she loved Coraline and I thought that one was good too. But I preferred M vs. A between the two it was the all around more fun experience.

All things considered, I still think 3D is a bit gimmicky still and it will be interesting to see how long it sticks around this time. I think the technology is finally good enough where audiences will want to see the 3D version of a film on a regular basis. But it obviously doesn't apply to all genres and the directors / studios, etc.. need to stay away from gimmicky images where they showcase 3D effects -- sharp objects pointing out into the audience, etc.. Let the 3D experience manifest throughout the film, but don't overstate it or dangle a carrot in front of the audience.. That gets annoying. I thought both Coraline and MvA did a pretty good job with this.
 
Zack Birlew said:
Well, it would have to be double sensored to make sense unless Panasonic wanted to cap themselves in the foot twice
Click to expand...

This is their first 3D thing... I wouldn't count on them not doing it.

I could see a bigger chip based on 2/3" where one sensor records two 1/3" images... not sure if the prisms and what nots could work so close together but if that is doable you could have a true 1/3" 3D rig and still use one 3CCD block. The anamorphic thing is really unrelated, I shouldn't have thrown that in there.

Even on an HVX-200 body I couldn't see two 3CCD blocks fitting... is there enough space? I guess you are saying there might be.

Though I guess the whole laws of physics thing might get in the way of this one...

What about if they figured out a way to extract two sets of progressive frames from a modified interlaced stream... just thinking aloud...

One way or an other I bet it will be very good footage and at the same time very far away from dual DSMCs.

Zack Birlew said:
Plus, if they gave a bigger sensor to work with, why not just make a bigger sensor camera and sell that? There are options though, they could go 4/3" size and give us some DOF too or they could go all the way and do a 35mm full frame CMOS sensor solution. However, that would change the camera's audience dramatically and I'm not sure if Panasonic wants to make that leap or not because if they gave us a full on 4/3" or 35mm-sized sensor camera, the big question would then be why they didn't do it before?
Click to expand...

Cause they are not Red.... they are not 100% up to speed with what Red is doing... they are not going to catch up... Red is going to pull away and build a healthy lead. My guess anyway.
 
KnockOutFilms said:
I took my son to see M vs A in 3D and he was blown away. As was I! I have never seen my son so excited when leaving a film, and we see a lot of films together. I can't even remotely overstate the smile on his face. He immediately asked to see it again for days afterward. He was so geeked out!

No offense, but since I saw the film, I can't understand anyone that doesn't think it's the best thing since sliced bread. At least for animation. (and I was a skeptic) I saw a trailer for Astro Boy and my first thoughts were that if it wasn't 3D I wasn't interested. Honest.

Chris
Click to expand...

Some of my friends had a similar reaction. But at their age, they try their best to mask their enthusiasm.

I hope I didn't come off as knocking other people's enjoyment of 3D. After all, many executives see 3D as the saving grace of cinema from both piracy and television. Plus, I am excited to see James Cameron's upcoming Avatar. But as a consumer, I haven't had that "aha" moment yet. I'm feel like a grandpa sitting on a rocking chair telling his grandkids how great old monochrome movies were. I desperately want to feel that new invigoration, but haven't yet.

I do wonder, however, if 3D will render 2D completely obsolete. Check out this autostereoscopic (no glasses needed) display from Philips:

http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product.php?URL_=product_stereovis_philips

Still a little pricey though. But imagine when these are as prevalent as today's HDTV's!
 
Zach Zoller said:
Yeah I'm also assuming that is sarcasm.

This new Pana Cam is not going to make a dent in RED today.
All I want to say is that you should keep your mind open to new things RED or not. And NOT see new products as "the bad guy".

Otherwise you are putting yourself in a box and I hope most of us agree that is a bad thing.

After that being said. RED sill takes the cake.

ZZ
Click to expand...

Yeah that's absolutely right. And well done on Panasonic for pushing the bitrate for a while now.

Without that ugly mug the only integrated 3D cams I'm aware of being announced would be intended for the consumer stills market.

It is truly fugly tho
 
Original poster Eric Strunz
Check out this autostereoscopic (no glasses needed) display from Philips:
Click to expand...


followed by.....Phillips pulling out of the autostereo game.....

Don't expect this anytime soon.

Cheers,
Ramona
 
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