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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

shutter instead of ND?

Raul Gonzo said:
Shutter can not change the amount of light in your raw file like an ND or closing the iris.
Click to expand...

Uh, yes it can. The reason people typically do not change the shutter angle to control exposure is that it changes the look of the motion. Fast shutter angle = Saving Private Ryan. Slow shutter angle = Miami Vice.
 
Raul Gonzo said:
Shutter can not change the amount of light in your raw file like an ND or closing the iris.
Click to expand...

it certainly does change the amount of light in your RAW file. Your choice of shutter is burned into your footage, it's not metadata that can be changed later. I've heard the shutter controls referred to as "the Poor Man's ND". If you're in a pinch, you can increase the shutter angle and to decrease the amount of light hitting the sensor, but it will change the look of the motion in your footage. Sometimes this if fine, or preferred, but other times it can be very distracting.
 
Depends on the amount of motion in a scene. I recall a James Bond movie ("View to a Kill" I think) where they must have closed the shutter a little in bright sunshine, and some horses were galloping by the shot and strobing badly. So generally you would avoid short shutter speeds outdoors unless you wanted more motion strobe.
 
Also be aware that on the RED One (and pretty much any other CMOS camera) the read reset times of the sensor are constant. So by decreasing the exposure time (faster shutter speed), you can exaggerate the "rolling shutter" skew effect. This happens due to the decreased overall exposure time relative to the CMOS reset time and also due to the reduction of motion blur, which normally softens the skew effect somewhat.

Typically, your motion will become extremely stuttery or stacato or will strobe severely before the annoying skew effect takes over. But just something to keep in mind if you start to really use faster shutter speeds / shorter exposures.
 
Miami Vice

Miami Vice

Julio Quintana said:
Uh, yes it can. The reason people typically do not change the shutter angle to control exposure is that it changes the look of the motion. Fast shutter angle = Saving Private Ryan. Slow shutter angle = Miami Vice.
Click to expand...

Do you know which shutter speed they use?
 
Not specifically, but 45deg is standard for the "Saving Private Ryan" look, and Michael Mann shootis a lot with a 360deg shutter, which a lot of people here, myself included, think ruins the cinematic look, but if you need the extra light it's there.
 
Why not use the shutter to regulate the amount of light?
Click to expand...
The most natural way of controlling light in a seeing system is the use of the iris. It is what nature does, biologically.
We animals never use the iris to control the depht of field.
The depth of field is just a consequence. Biology doesn't need or want very much to see things out of focus. It's a disadvantage. Possibly a defect.

Another, less natural, way to control light is to build and use sunglasses.
We are talking about natural light, of course, since with artificial light, you already adjust it as you need.

Cinematographers do the opposite: the current trend is to use the concequence of the iris aperture as a feature in order to cancel all the details in a scene apart from the very subject. It also helps hiding the defects in the scenography, but i'm not sure what the exact aim is. I don't see why an extremely short depth of field would be necessarily. But again: is fashion necessary? In the ephemeral, it only depends on what people want, or what people think they want, that soon means: what people believe they need.
Or I'd rather say: in what is called an industry (by its insiders/industrialists.. who exaclty knows which dynamics make happen what?

I need ND only if I also need sunglasses. That is very very rare.
We got iris for this.
It's more natural.
If light is too much, my second option is lowering the ISO, unless I have the impression that this increase the contrast and that precise scene is already too contrasty. But such collateral effect may be only a suggestion.

Therd option: I also increase the shutter speed, when Iris and Iso are not enough.
Because it's a normal camera feature, because it makes the camera smaller and ligher than the use of accessories, and maybe for the pleasure of doing the opposite of the current trend.
I makes the motion a bit different? so what?
The scene IS different in the first place. It's only an obvious adaptation.


Fourth option: right, if I shoot the sun, I can surely put a filter (I don't watch the sun for long with my bare eyes either).
("for long" = shutter speed?)
I am not fond of a camera too big.

I've heard the shutter controls referred to as "the Poor Man's ND"
Click to expand...
Yeah, why not.
I have 2 Red Ones and a few lenses, I don't consider myself so poor that I cannot afford filters, but I can agree with the idea - and it's all right - that using a ND is cheaper. I't not only cheaper, it's also easier and faster than changing, holding, cleaning, damned filters all the time.
Filters are more comfortable in the studio, but the studio is also the place where they are less needed.

You can do what you prefer, there are no rules apart from common sense.

Sometimes this if fine, or preferred, but other times it can be very distracting.
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Yeah, If you omit the word "very", I agree.
I could be distracting, But not as distracting as a little focus error (surely magnified by an overly open iris).
To me, the distracting aspect is not much a certain shutter speed, but rather the difference in speed between to scenes.
BUT: if the movement in the scene is not much, you won't notice a slightly different shutter speed.
 
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