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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

where are the viewfinders ?

Steve G

Steve G

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I have my first red job starting on Monday, hiring the camera from a london based camera hire company. Low budget feature, but thankfully, my regular camera hire company is helping out with a great deal. Problem is, the camera was shipped without viewfinder as there seems to be a problem with supply of viewfinders and it seems that it is impossible to get one without paying full rate for a "whole camera package".

They have been promised one for a while, but there is still no sign..... Red are saying that it is fine just to use the on board Lcd and that camera without viewfinder is a complete package...... Sorry, but can you imagine sony/panasonic/arri/aaton/panavision saying the same ?

Not that impressed.

steve gray
+447711 009515
stevengray31@mac.com
 
maclean31 said:
I have my first red job starting on Monday, hiring the camera from a london based camera hire company. Low budget feature, but thankfully, my regular camera hire company is helping out with a great deal. Problem is, the camera was shipped without viewfinder as there seems to be a problem with supply of viewfinders and it seems that it is impossible to get one without paying full rate for a "whole camera package".

They have been promised one for a while, but there is still no sign..... Red are saying that it is fine just to use the on board Lcd and that camera without viewfinder is a complete package...... Sorry, but can you imagine sony/panasonic/arri/aaton/panavision saying the same ?

Not that impressed.

steve gray
+447711 009515
stevengray31@mac.com
Click to expand...

RED does not say anything about what a rental package should be. We are not in that business.

Jim
 
maclean31 said:
I have my first red job starting on Monday, hiring the camera from a london based camera hire company. Low budget feature, but thankfully, my regular camera hire company is helping out with a great deal. Problem is, the camera was shipped without viewfinder as there seems to be a problem with supply of viewfinders and it seems that it is impossible to get one without paying full rate for a "whole camera package".

They have been promised one for a while, but there is still no sign..... Red are saying that it is fine just to use the on board Lcd and that camera without viewfinder is a complete package...... Sorry, but can you imagine sony/panasonic/arri/aaton/panavision saying the same ?

Not that impressed.

steve gray
+447711 009515
stevengray31@mac.com
Click to expand...

I'm unsure what your trying to say. Are you warning us to avoid that rental facility? RED ships out whatever is in stock, so if someone accepts shipment even if a necessary item is out of stock, I don't see that as RED's issue, do you? Plus it seems to me that most of the people who've ordered EVFs have them by now, so I'm assuming that rental company was just way down the the list.

BTW, I've yet to see a photo of Soderbergh using anything but the LCD, so it would seem you can shoot with the LCD just fine if you need to.
 
Is this an issue with Red, or an issue with the rental company?
 
It's entirely possible to shoot well with Red without an EVF, though I greatly prefer using the EVF and usually use both. Your problem is with your cheapo "hire" company, not Red.

I continue to be shocked by the very stripped-down "packages" that people/companies are offering for rent. Sure, the price is low for the renter, but I know of a number of shoots where the package used was honestly too sparse to use for a professional production, and yes, it bit them in the ass in each case. You really need more than two 8GB CF cards to do a decent shoot, for example. Why put the rest of the production costs, whether real or as favors called in, at risk?

I won't let my Red go out without a minimum useful level of equipment because that doesn't serve anyone well. I have an HVX for the lower budgets.

Sorry, this kind of thing drives me crazy. Rant over.

Matthew Verkler
 
No, it is not an issue with the rental company and I am not advising anyone to stay away from that rental company. They had a viewfinder on order, which they asked to be shipped with their camera. The camera was shipped without a viewfinder and they have been told that there is an issue with manufacturing of them. When they asked why their camera order was shipped without viewfinder (when they asked that it not be shipped incomplete as they didn't want their warranty to start on a kit that they felt was incomplete), they were told that it is fine to shoot without the viewfinder.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif
 
It's entirely possible to shoot well with Red without an EVF, though I greatly prefer using the EVF and usually use both. Your problem is with your cheapo "hire" company, not Red.

I continue to be shocked by the very stripped-down "packages" that people/companies are offering for rent. Sure, the price is low for the renter, but I know of a number of shoots where the package used was honestly too sparse to use for a professional production, and yes, it bit them in the ass in each case. You really need more than two 8GB CF cards to do a decent shoot, for example. Why put the rest of the production costs, whether real or as favors called in, at risk?
Click to expand...

The company in question is certainly not a cheapo "hire" company. They have recently bought over one of the larger independent camera hire companies in London. They have over 20 electronic camera packages, and over 10 16mm and 35mm packages.

They are providing the usual red package and a set of arri ultra primes and an angenieux hr 25 - 250 zoom. Hardly a back street operation.

They have bent over backwards to try to find a viewfinder, (as noted above they have not had theirs delivered) but as there seems to be a manufacturing issue going on with viewfinders, they are at a premium here in London, with owners able to charge full package rental prices when only a viewfinder is required. (Of course, this is fair enough... camera is not so useful without a viewfinder).

My frustration is that they can't get their viewfinder from Red.......
 
Maclean, sorry if I was mistaken about the rental company; I didn't mean to impugn their abilities. Your comment on the original post that "it is impossible to get one without paying full rate for a 'whole camera package'" threw me off - now I see that you meant that no other company would rent you just the EVF when you were getting the camera from this company. Makes sense. My misunderstanding; as I mentioned, I was getting sick of stripped-down packages mucking up the scene here in Silicon Valley.

My Red is #508, which I received a little over a year ago. Back then, EVF's were more hard to come by as their production ramp-up lagged everything else; I didn't get my EVF until June I think. I had to make do with the LCD for a number of months, and to be honest, it really wasn't a problem. The 5.6 inch Red LCD is surprisingly bright and viewable in direct sunlight, even without a Hoodman, and the 7 inch is brighter than that.

Ask if the rental company has a Hoodman for the LCD, and if you are still worried, ask if you can check out the camera with LCD in person. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

For what it's worth, if you were in this area I would gladly rent you just the EVF if it was available for that day - maybe you could try finding another Reduser on this forum who would help you out. Most people here are pretty friendly and helpful - check out the Red Owners Rental Group, User Groups, or Equipment for Hire sections. Or perhaps try RedConnector.com. Good luck!

Matthew Verkler
 
maclean31 said:
I have my first red job starting on Monday, hiring the camera from a london based camera hire company. Low budget feature, but thankfully, my regular camera hire company is helping out with a great deal. Problem is, the camera was shipped without viewfinder as there seems to be a problem with supply of viewfinders and it seems that it is impossible to get one without paying full rate for a "whole camera package".

They have been promised one for a while, but there is still no sign..... Red are saying that it is fine just to use the on board Lcd and that camera without viewfinder is a complete package...... Sorry, but can you imagine sony/panasonic/arri/aaton/panavision saying the same ?

Not that impressed.

steve gray
+447711 009515
stevengray31@mac.com
Click to expand...

eyes wide open when choosing the rental company!

low prices do often affect non complete packages....
 
Martin Ludwig said:
eyes wide open when choosing the rental company!

low prices do often affect non complete packages....
Click to expand...

See my post above and Maclean's subsequent posts . . . . . the rental company is waiting for its EVF and other's won't rent JUST the EVF; it's not a cheapo rental company, they're just recent Red owners apparently.

Matthew Verkler
 
The original post does seem a little confusing...

Since it is very easy to guess which rental company he is talking about I'd like to say that I have never had such good support from any other company. I do deal with quite a few good companies.

I once had a 2 camera f900 shoot were one of the cameras was causing an obscure (big) problem in the footage and they went to massive lengths to make the the footage right (not just dropping the charge which is what every other good company would have done).

regards

Michael

PS Despite having 2 VF we often prefer to use a LCD and a 8.4inch Astro or Panasonic.
 
The original post is a bit confusing, I admit. Jet lag and late night posting not such a good thing. However, it is frustrating that the camera hire company still do not have their viewfinder after over 1 month since they got the main body delivery.

eyes wide open when choosing the rental company!

low prices do often affect non complete packages....
Click to expand...

The company in question is a very reputable company, who I use all the time for my regular paying and normal budget shoots. This Film London Microwaves feature is being shot for £100,000. The camera hire company are doing me and the prod company a massive favour, as is the Lighting company I am using.
 
Look at it this way- Red could've held the whole package back until the EVF was available, but I'm sure the rental company would rather have everything else first. I didn't want to wait for the EVF either, and had no problems shooting with the LCD while waiting for it.

Matthew Verkler
 
I would think a direct appeal in the right section here will uncover a UK based private RED owner with an EVF. I think your complaint is entirely understandable. The flipside to REDs somewhat haphazard approach to making and shipping components is that the users stick together a bit more, sort of like battered wives in a shelter...
 
Hi Steve,

How long do you need it for? I could potentially spare mine for a week. Send me an email if this is useful;

james@steadi-red.com

Cheers,

James.
 
Look at it this way- Red could've held the whole package back until the EVF was available, but I'm sure the rental company would rather have everything else first. I didn't want to wait for the EVF either, and had no problems shooting with the LCD while waiting for it.
Click to expand...

Wrong. The hire company did in fact NOT want Red to deliver their camera package till the viewfinder was available. As you know, the 1 year warranty starts when the body is delivered. They asked Red to wait, so that the warranty would start when the kit was delivered in a state that they and I feel could be called 'ready to shoot'. However, on this occasion, Red ignored this request and delivered the body anyway. The person at Red that they spoke to, said that with the lcd monitor, the camera was ready to shoot.......

As Jim replied,
RED does not say anything about what a rental package should be. We are not in that business.

Jim
Click to expand...

but it seems that some of their staff have different opinions.

steve gray
stevengray31@mac.com
 
I've rented EVF's in London on their own (ie not a full camera package).
FilmscapeMedia definitely will, I'm pretty sure Decode do as well

Personally I've not needed it and the statement "The person at Red that they spoke to, said that with the lcd monitor, the camera was ready to shoot......." is entirely accurate
 
maclean31 said:
Wrong. The hire company did in fact NOT want Red to deliver their camera package till the viewfinder was available. As you know, the 1 year warranty starts when the body is delivered. They asked Red to wait, so that the warranty would start when the kit was delivered in a state that they and I feel could be called 'ready to shoot'. However, on this occasion, Red ignored this request and delivered the body anyway. The person at Red that they spoke to, said that with the lcd monitor, the camera was ready to shoot.......

As Jim replied: "RED does not say anything about what a rental package should be. We are not in that business" but it seems that some of their staff have different opinions.

steve gray
stevengray31@mac.com
Click to expand...

Steve, first, if our customer - the rental company - has said we "ignored" a request, have them contact me directly at brent - at - red - dot - com.

Yes, a camera is "ready to shoot" with an LCD as a monitoring option. Some people prefer LCD, some prefer EVF, some like both. It is a matter of preference - not "complete" versus "incomplete".

And, no, our staff does not have a different opinion from Jim. We are not a rental company. Did we say "x, y, and z comprises a full rental package"? No, they said you can shoot with a camera without an EVF - esp if you already have an LCD.

Lastly, as Verko already spoke of, it is better to take delivery of the camera bodies asap. Your camera delivery date dictates your backorder fulfillment priority. So, this rental company, by taking delivery of the cameras, is in line for the EVFs. If they had not, would have delayed the eventual delivery of the EVFs.

Feel free to PM or email me, Steve, if you want to discuss further.

Oh, and for those of you wondering, we are getting really close to being caught up on EVFs :)

BC
 
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