Profitability of HBO mini-series?

[Craig Ryan]

If you find yourself avoiding films purely on the basis of Zimmer's attachment then I can't really say much other than that I hope you can eventually put that aside and try to enjoy the films for what they are and nothing more.:err:

 

[Tom Lowe]

Yannick, what is Max Richter's greatest masterpiece, in your opinion, as of right now? Can you point me to it so I can give a listen?

 

[Jason Murphy]

I'm not aware of any composer, who copies from Wagner as excessively as Zimmer in a way that almost gets borring enough to avoid the movies altogether.

I dunno. John Williams comes close at times. But he's better than Zimmer, and also lifts from Takemitsu and others.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

Oh, that's hard, as it's a diverse body of work. Most probably would say "on the nature of delight" or "sarajevo". What I like is they are atmospheric but not really predictible.

http://www.myspace.com/maxrichtermusic

I actually like "organum" or "vladimir's blues" much (the blue notebook album). Or "A sudden manhatten of the mind" for something more electronical (from 24 postcards).


Okay, I will avoid movies with the combination Michael Bay and Hans Zimmer or Tony Scott and Hans Zimmer. It turned out I didn't like that combination.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Oh, that's hard, as it's a diverse body of work. Most probably would say "on the nature of delight" or "sarajevo". What I like is they are atmospheric but not really predictible.

http://www.myspace.com/maxrichtermusic

I actually like "organum" or "vladimir's blues" much (the blue notebook album). Or "A sudden manhatten of the mind" for something more electronical (from 24 postcards).


Okay, I will avoid movies with the combination Michael Bay and Hans Zimmer or Tony Scott and Hans Zimmer. It turned out I didn't like that combination.

Those are some gorgeous pieces. I still think Zimmer has him whooped with pieces like "Journey to the Line" and "Light" from the TTRL score.

BTW, Richter's stuff does remind me just a tad of Mansell's work. Do you have any opinion on Mansell?

 

[Craig Ryan]

Okay, I will avoid movies with the combination Michael Bay and Hans Zimmer or Tony Scott and Hans Zimmer. It turned out I didn't like that combination.

Fair enough

 

[jpp]

I dunno. John Williams comes close at times. But he's better than Zimmer, and also lifts from Takemitsu and others.

Just to indulge a little pedantry, when you guys use "Wagner" do you mean it literally, or is it just a reference to the romantic style or musical bombast?

I haven't heard enough Zimmer to know, but since when is John Williams "Wagnerian"? That old bastard would be turning in his grave, if he heard you say so (after hearing John Williams).

 

[Jason Murphy]

Just to indulge a little pedantry, when you guys use "Wagner" do you mean it literally, or is it just a reference to the romantic style or musical bombast?

I haven't heard enough Zimmer to know, but since when is John Williams "Wagnerian"? That old bastard would be turning in his grave, if he heard you say so (after hearing John Williams).

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that John Williams came close to being like Wagner, or anywhere as good as Wagner. Not even remotely. Completely different orders of magnitude.

What I meant was that Williams certainly came close or surpassed Zimmer in his liberal borrowing from Wagner to the point of boredom. I wasn't referring really to the romantic style or bombast, though there is of course some of it there. I was specifically referring to his use of leitmotif in the majority of his scores, which is more or less directly drawn from Wagner, and though leitmotif has certainly been used in film scores throughout history, Williams was really the one to run with it in the 1970's and popularize it.

That said, Wagner is obviously not his only source of music. Williams has at times almost lifted passages wholesale from Toru Takemitsu, and one can hear a hell of a lot of Holst's Planets in parts of the Star Wars score.

EDIT: Truth be told, I don't really get the Zimmer/Wagner connection that much. Don't care for most of Zimmer's scores, though, Thin Red Line being a very notable exception; it's quite beautiful.

 

[jpp]

Leitmotifs, yes, but I don't hear much debased Wagner in Williams. Mahler yes -- the Schindler's List theme, for example, was a direct lift from Symphony 8. But then again I'm no expert on Williams either.

Anyway, I hope nobody here considers "Wagner" a dirty word. Some of the most amazing orchestral music on earth.

 

[Jason Murphy]

Leitmotifs, yes, but I don't hear much debased Wagner in Williams. Mahler yes -- the Schindler's List tune, the violin stuff, was a direct lift from Symphony 8. But then again I'm no expert on Williams either.

Anyway, I hope nobody here considers "Wagner" a dirty word. Some of the most amazing orchestral music on earth.

Can't say I'm much of a Williams expert either (though I went through a phase of listening to the Star Wars scores a bunch in my teens), and I guess come to think of it, I don't hear much Wagner lifted directly in his scores. I just always assumed with his use of leitmotif that he was trying to do something Wagner-y, and not doing it very well.

And, yes, Wagner is awesome.

 

[Craig Ryan]

You can draw a lot more similarities between Willaims and Ravel or Stravinsky than you can Williams and Wagner. Daphnis and Chloe is a good example of leitmotif used with certain instruments.

Honestly I just don't understand what the fuss is, if there is any...I'm not quite sure I'm reading the tone correctly for some of the posts here. Sure it's good to listen to the old stuff and learn where/who the techniques came from and how they evolved, but I don't see why that needs to hinder the enjoyment of modern film scores. I can sit in my car and drive to David Arnold's Casino Royale score (caution; may result in speeding ticket) and appreciate it fully even though I've heard my share of the classic composers of the past. Has it been done before? Probably..but honestly, if you can't get into the the music enough to allow it to take you to a place in your own mind to enjoy it,then you may be missing the point of music entirely oh:

I try to be as open minded and humble about art as possible; a smug attitude towards it just limits our capacity for our own creativity in most cases. *Leaps off the moral high ground* There I said it.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

Those are some gorgeous pieces. I still think Zimmer has him whooped with pieces like "Journey to the Line" and "Light" from the TTRL score.

BTW, Richter's stuff does remind me just a tad of Mansell's work. Do you have any opinion on Mansell?

Tom. It's a long time since i've seen TTRL. Maybe I find another possibility to rewatch and reslisten. Somehow Malick's films always happen to be a slice too long for my attention span.

Didn't know Clint Mansell before by his name. I like his work a lot.