Another Module Idea

[Harry Lipnick]

So...here I am again thinking about using Scarlet, and workflow comes to mind. One of the things that has seemed to slow people down is the time spent transcoding to ProRes, etc. when their computer is too slow to use the proxies effectively. What if there was another module that just held a separate processor that could encode on the fly to ProRes (and maybe the choice of a few other codecs) and make a file that would be dropped right in the RDC folder with the R3D and proxies. The only downside is it would take up more recording space, but for me, the time saved would make it well worth it. What do you all think?
Peace,

-Harry

 

[Joseph Ward]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Dominic Jones]

Would be very expensive, and not do-able in a reasonably sized space. Bear in mind that an 8 core Mac Pro with 16GB of RAM only manages about 6fps transcode speed...

Try fitting 4 of those into a small hand-holdable box!

Nice idea though...
Dom.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Sounds very expensive if you want to design custom hardware to do this. But then who is going to want it right on the camera? Makes more sense to make it a box or peripheral card that can be attached to a workstation.

Anyway, as native REDCODE support becomes common in most of the post apps, this will be a non-issue anyway, combined with the speed increase of new systems.

 

[Kevin Olsen]

It seems to me that a large advantage of the RED system is the reliance on post production computing power. Thereby removing the required processing power out of the camera and somewhere else where it can be tailored to the needs of the user.

I like the idea of the module, but as Jeff mentioned, it seems too much power to handle in such a small box running on batteries.

KO

 

[Charles Angus]

IO HD can do real-time transcode to ProRes, can't it?

Dedicated hardware is pretty much always faster than multi-purpose hardware (like a Mac Pro), isn't it?

This would just be for offlining, too, so it would probably only need to be a 1/2 or 1/4 debayer, anyway, right?

 

[Harry Lipnick]

While I think Charles is right about the dedicated hardware bit, I think, Jeff, that you've kinda hit the nail on the head with this bit:

Anyway, as native REDCODE support becomes common in most of the post apps, this will be a non-issue anyway, combined with the speed increase of new systems.

Guess I just have to remember that by the time I have a Scarlet shooting footage, the computers should be able to chomp through simple edits on the proxies pretty easy. Oh well...it was one of those random ideas I had, but probably a bit less practical/necessary now that I've got some feed back. Case closed?
Peace,

-Harry

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Don't get me wrong, I think an IO-HD type box for REDCODE would be great or if we could get a new AJA card that natively accelerates REDCODE processing, that would be killer.

I just didn't see the purpose to having the converter on the camera itself. I suppose there could be uses for transcoding in real-time onboard, effectively recording to other formats like ProRes or whatnot. But I guess we should wait to see what RED offers in terms of their RGB format. Also, I'm amazed with what can be done with RED footage right now.

I don't touch the proxies anymore, in fact I just don't like them. My Macbook Pro is 2.5 years old, Core2-Duo, 2GB RAM, ATI X1600 video... I can edit in Premiere just fine with native REDCODE shot 4K RC36. No problems. I'll admit that I wouldn't want to edit a feature this way, but for short films, commercial spots, most corporate type stuff, etc.. it works pretty good. Obviously, editing on a newer Mac Pro or Windows box, is way nicer, but I think a lot of the paranoia over workflow is mostly a misunderstanding.

The same applies to Final Cut Pro and Apple Color. Although, the Apple workflow right now forces 4K to 2K and does not support 3K.

Both workflows have their caveats and shortcomings. One of the biggest problems right now is proper support for metadata and the various color space options. But these workflows are definitely progressing and are usable for real production right now if you know what you're getting into before shooting.

And yes, lots of this should change by the time Scarlet is available.

 

[I Bloom]

I think there would be several patent and IP issues with this idea, that would prevent it from happening.

IBloom

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Yes IOHD can compress 1080p prores realtime from an uncompressed stream, but can it decode, debayer, and downscale full res 4k wavelet compressed REDCODE36 footage to 1080p prores in real time? not even close. I think it is somewhat unlikely that a solution that can be small and battery powered and light enough to stick on the end of a camera would be possible to develop any time in the next couple of years.