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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet for idiots?

J

james Mallon

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Sorry, Hope that got some attention.

I looked for quite a while on the workflow section to find out a simple way to edit the Scarlet (3K) Fixed lens. Man why is it things have to be so techie, filmining is an art not computer programming. i look at these extensive posts and articles on de-noising, bit rate blah blah and then look at their footage and its looks like good qauity tedious junk, Editing is an art form not a technical thing or at least the tech side shouldn't overwhelm the creative side especially for indie users.

So My question is this and its for idiots like me who want to use the scarlett and edit great looking footage. What is most simple way to do that. Please answer in less than 50 words!

(I am thinking Ok I buy an Imac good spec, an external hardrive, the red footage can be edited at a lower quality setting and exported at a higher quality. FCP will be able to handle the footage natively or does Red use a codec that compresses it. )

Please for the love of god no techie stuff assume I'm an idiot, my girlfriend does.
 
alright you idiot. jokes. Anyways im like you too, demosaic,degrain,debullshit..blah blah.

I can not comment on final cut but basically you shoot your RAW file, plug it into your computer and edit the R3D files just like you do with the HVX and MXF files. I tried premiere pro to edit some R3D files in rough quality mode and then turned on best quality when i exported a quicktime movie file.

There's a new thread under recon and under workflow for final cut specifics.

maybe more than 50 words, sorry.
 
james Mallon said:
Man why is it things have to be so techie, filmining is an art not computer programming.
Click to expand...
This underlying assumption of yours will stunt your growth as an artist. Its BOTH OK? You have to be good at both technical and creative aspects of filmmaking to be any good at it. And if you suck more at one than the other, then you are just going to have to work that much harder bringing yourself up to speed in that area.

I realize its a bit like trying to take a drink out of a firehose at times, you are reading posts from people in the very top of the industry, so cut yourself some slack. Take it one sip at a time and you'll be fine, but ditch the notion that its not technical. It always has been and always will be.
 
Learn what tools you have to create the art you want.

The artist must learn to use the paint brush before he creates a masterpiece. The paint brush needs an artist to create the masterpiece.
 
james Mallon said:
So My question is this and its for idiots like me who want to use the scarlett and edit great looking footage. What is most simple way to do that. Please answer in less than 50 words!
Click to expand...

Probably this: shoot in 1080p RGB mode, make all necessary adjustments in-camera like with any current cam out there. Edit in any windows or mac app. Done.
 
james Mallon said:
Man why is it things have to be so techie, filmining is an art not computer programming.
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You mean with real film you din't have to learn how to use it?

Every Artist needs to learn his tools, and if you want the scarlet to be your tool learn it. If you want an easy cam get a point-and-film one. You'll not get that quality, but art is not about quality, or is it?
 
james Mallon said:
So My question is this and its for idiots like me who want to use the scarlett and edit great looking footage. What is most simple way to do that.
Click to expand...

If you want 80% of the quality available, just follow the rules for dummies.

If you want the best possible image quality also in difficult conditions to support your art, give a sigh and make a true effort to find out what all these technical issues are all about.
 
You will get out of it what you put into it.

These are rules to live by when it comes to technology. You want perfection? You're going to have to spend months tweaking idiosynchratic spinners and sliders which mean nothing to anybody. Including the programmers who wrote them.

You want easy? Fine. But you won't get perfection. You want something to happen EXACTLY a certain way? No problem. Write your own convolution matrix. You want easy? Well here are pre-existing options.

There is a reason lots of big blockbusters spend millions of dollars writing software: they're doing things that have never been done before. If it's easy someone has already done it. You want to show the audience something they've never seen? You're going to probably have to create something new to capture it. New cameras. New rigs. New software.

If it's easy it's been done enough times that people have ironed out all the wrinkles. Easy is taking the escalator. Easy is driving to the mall. The new. The previously unseen. That's when you've got to get your boots dirty. If it's easy it's because 1,000 people have come before you and fashioned a road through their toil.

50 words or less:

Shoot on CF Card. Copy to computer. Load in REDCine. Export to DV. Import into Premiere. Drag onto Timeline. Edit. Burn to DVD.
 
You vs. "The Lab"

You vs. "The Lab"

GPSchnyder said:
You mean with real film you din't have to learn how to use it?
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With "filmmaking" on film, you send it to the lab, the colorist does the grading, the printers do the printing, the lab does the processing, the cleaner does the cleaning, the projectionest does the projection. The editor does the editing, the composer does the composing, the sound techs do the ADR and Foley, the mixer does the mixing. The distributer does the distributing.

What part of that did you do in filmmaking?

If you want to do all those tasks yourself then you need to be skilled at all those skills. The Digital Cinema age lets you do all those things yourself at very low cost, unless you need to pay people to do them for you then you end up about the same as before... Your choice, but at least you have the choice now.
 
I didnt say filmaking dosen't have a technical side, My question was whats a simple workflow that I can sort out without getting TOO technical and inventing the wheel. Video editing is unavoidably technical and I enjoy it especially when it directly influences powerfully the image you working on. I guess I am tired of those who are focused on technical issues in software but dont't know anything about colour temperature, correct use of mics etc. and end up producing a high definition homemovie. And then when someone posts a great clip, evenyone is like wow what did you use a Mac or Pc like that was the reason it looks great.

What my question actually was is what is a tried and tested wokflow and if it was as simple as buying a good spec Mac and using codec from Red or if there is another software program I must have to do the job.

Thanks for the actual helpful input but I think 1080p would be ok but surely you want to use more of the potential of the scarlet or I may as well get a Canon 5d.


*you know all this was similar to when HDV was introduced and people were talking like you had to build a supercomputer to edit it and now you know any new Mac would deal with it without sweating. I'm just a late adopter thats all.

Of course if I wasn't interested in making something great I wouldn't be on a RED forum would I?
 
I think its worth saying I am a documentary maker so am looking at scarlet as a great potential tool. Maybe don't need quite as much quality as 'moviemaking' which is where many on this board might be coming from. Dont forget the scarlet fixed lens is only a few thousand dollars so I dont expect to produce perfection whatever that means. I think red is leading a revolution in price and quality I dont think the big boys will be using scarlet anytime soon. I can buy one out of a months wages when could anyone say that about real movie equipment! So if its a pro consumer (the fixed lens scarlet) then its dumb to think the average user might not want a more simple less technical workfow.
 
The Red team has stated several times already that they are not making toys for the average joe, they're making cutting edge professional tools for people who want cutting edge tools for highest possible quality. If you don't know what color temperature or shutter speed, iso/asa or aperture are it's time to brush up on your knowledge and learn that stuff. The Scarlet isn't meant to turn anybody into a master cinematographer with a magical "auto" mode that will make everything look sweet. It's a serious tool that has a learning curve. If you're willing to accept that learning curve it'll give you the chance to shoot beautiful images, if you want it to make beautiful images for you then you'd probably be better off with a point and shoot that has face-detection and "magical" auto modes.
 
Luke Stewart said:
I realize its a bit like trying to take a drink out of a firehose at times, you are reading posts from people in the very top of the industry, so cut yourself some slack. Take it one sip at a time and you'll be fine...
Click to expand...

Our industry certainly has its fair share of jargon. But it grows on you, I suppose.

Also, here a 30-minute video of a basic Adobe workflow with raw r3d files:

http://tv.adobe.com/#vi+f1510v1004

I know it can feel a little overwhelming, but hang in there James. You'd be surprised at how fast you can soak it up. Think of it as an immersion program.

Eric
 
Juhan said:
The Scarlet isn't meant to turn anybody into a master cinematographer with a magical "auto" mode that will make everything look sweet. It's a serious tool that has a learning curve.
Click to expand...

What?! They took out the David Mullen auto button? Well, there goes my dream of ever being invited into the ASC!

Eric
 
james Mallon said:
So My question is this and its for idiots like me who want to use the scarlett and edit great looking footage.
Click to expand...
An idiot cannot shoot and edit great looking footage using a Scarlet etc. I suggest you grow up and make some effort to learn the craft ... or maybe become a community organizer or something.
Movie making is Story telling, Idiots have nothing to say ... grow up.

get a miniDV camera, used, cheap. Get an iMac, used, cheap, Get a book on iMovie. Make some 2-5 minute shorts put them on DVD with iDVD.
Come back with questions ....
 
james Mallon said:
Thanks for the actual helpful input but I think 1080p would be ok but surely you want to use more of the potential of the scarlet or I may as well get a Canon 5d.
Click to expand...

Resolution is only one part of image quality. I'm pretty confident that Scarlet 1080p will blow the likes of 5d out the water.

But if you wish to edit at higher resolution, i.e. Adobe Premiere CS4 can work directly with the original raw files.
 
racer: hey i want to drive the formula one car...dont get me wrong i know how to drive fast...but all the technical stuff is annoying.
how can i drive this damn formula one car easily.

reaction: hmm...do we know someone else who can drive fast and more important can drive fast a formula one car.


point is: you doesnt have to build the formula one car...you have to know how to drive really fast THAT formula one car
 
Peter Hodgins said:
An idiot cannot shoot and edit great looking footage using a Scarlet etc. I suggest you grow up and make some effort to learn the craft ...
Click to expand...

When I said I was an idiot it was self depreciation, i'm British (you know that small country that produces most of the talent in Hollywood) a sense of humour thing you might understand it as in your country. And also a touch of irony as I have two University degrees how about you?


I just asked for a workable workflow for a digital camera and you throw personal insults around. I maintain that the fixed lens scarlet is more geared toward the low end and is way different to using the high end REDS or even the higer spec'd Scarlet's.
 
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