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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

wow.... ALL TIME LOW

Nicholas,
this must be your craigslist post..
not trying to put you down in any way..

just pointing out the fact that there is indeed a saturated market and rental rates have dropped extremely low for some people.

do what you gotta do.

I just find it funny how less than a year ago.. a complete package was 1000-1500/day

and now we are finding packages for 300/day that include a "DIT" and/or operator/dp..


I gave up trying to make any sort of money with rentals.. if I get them, then I am happy.. If i dont.. then it doesnt bother me, because rentals are only 1% of my income.

I am not here to fight with anyone about this subject:)

moving on
 
Zakaree:

First, I have no idea who posted the classified - I do know that it's over 2000 miles away from me. And you weren't simply stating the decrease in rates - you went out of your way to insult the guy/girl. The drop in rates is a no brainer - not worth discussing. Insulting someone on a public board is even less so. As you say, moving on.

Nick.
 
well, 2% of $17.5k is $350. so for even a modest package you'd think you'd be looking at about $500, which wouldn't include glass, support, filters, etc.

And then to offer on top of that your own service as DP, and DIT on top of that. I have to agree, I'm surprised so many people are offering this kind of rate.

I point out that I don't charge anything because I wasn't looking at buying a RED ONE as a financial investment, but as a creative one, and I'm at a point in my life where I'm lucky enough to have been able to afford the camera and still have enough open schedule to shoot with it pretty much as often as I like, including offering to help other local productions usually for free.

I feel bad for what seems to be the substantial number of people with limited production experience, who bought cameras thinking they'd be able to make a career renting it out. Now they realize what most people know, which is that when everyone has something, that something isn't very valuable. What's valuable now, is talent and experience :)
 
Nicholas Shields said:
Zakaree:

First, I have no idea who posted the classified - I do know that it's over 2000 miles away from me. And you weren't simply stating the decrease in rates - you went out of your way to insult the guy/girl. The drop in rates is a no brainer - not worth discussing. Insulting someone on a public board is even less so. As you say, moving on.

Nick.
Click to expand...

gotcha. i was not insulting.. i was kidding about the reel.. i dont even know who posted it. i just saw the ad. thats all
 
There but for the grace of god...

There but for the grace of god...

Brandon said:
I feel bad for what seems to be the substantial number of people with limited production experience, who bought cameras thinking they'd be able to make a career renting it out. Now they realize what most people know, which is that when everyone has something, that something isn't very valuable. What's valuable now, is talent and experience :)
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more my friend. I'm in a similar situation to yours, and there was a time not long ago where there appeared to be a business model that would support some income from rental, and a chance to hone your skills concurrently.

I looked long and hard at that and came to the decision that this was similar to the desktop publishing boom of 20 years ago where all of the sudden everybody was a publisher, rates for work hit rock bottom, and some of the ugliest stuff ever produced by humans was being cranked out.

I decided to buy an EX-3 last summer, spend the difference on a production intensive at USC, and am now working with 16mm as well. Because I realized that the number one obstacle to me being a better cinematographer and filmmaker was uhm... me. And that the EX3 is more than enough for my present skill level.

That said, I've come very close to purchase of a Red several times, and it will happen eventually, when I'm no longer the limiting factor. I'm just lucky enough to have had a a career that went well and so now money matters less.

So, there but by the grace of god go I, as the old saying goes.

One key difference, is that I haven't posted a reel because I don't think my work to date is at the level that it is ready to be advertised.

If I had to advertise because I needed the money, I'd be stuck showing work that's OK, but not really polished. It's got to be hard if your in a position where you have no choice but to do what you have to do for cash flow.

At least these folks are taking risks and following their dreams, something that makes the read difference in how you live your life IMHO.

BTW, I'm just up the road a piece in Sunnyvale, so sing out if you need an extra pair of hands on your projects, I'm always looking for a chance to learn, and I have some nice toys that might be of service.

Steve
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
i was not insulting..
Click to expand...

Really?

Zakaree Sandberg said:
they bought gear, and realized that it wont make them professional.. and now are scraping the bottom of the barrel to get by..
Click to expand...

That's not insulting? It's at least presumptuous.

Anyway, I've seen this guy's ad before. He posts it all the time. I don't know if that means he's getting lots of work from it or not enough, heh.

But I've reduced my day rates significantly on my package, too. Between the economy, the SAG troubles, and RED market saturation, times are tough all around, even in production. I'd rather work 10 days a month at a $300/day rate than 0 days a month for $3000/day.
 
Zak, I had seen those kind of rates six months ago. And figured that $300/day wouldn't be too far off in some places. Specially LA. Looks like those days are finally here.
 
Tico said:
Zak, I had seen those kind of rates six months ago. And figured that $300/day wouldn't be too far off in some places. Specially LA. Looks like those days are finally here.
Click to expand...

and the democratization is complete :)
 
Just wait until there are 10,000 2/3" fixed lens Scarlet's out in the market. Only a very discriminating professional will know the difference between a Scarlet, R1 or Epic. Many others will not and just see RED in the advertising. Is democratizing or leveling the technological playing field always a good thing?
 
The new world order

The new world order

I think it's an exciting time.

I had a fellow student with a really excellent eye, and good story ideas in a production class this summer that was from Poland. He got some sort of grant to come over.

He had three hundred dollars to his name and no idea what he was going to do for a camera when he got home.

Great tools available to people like Jonasz Rewinski will make the world a better place.

The great designers I knew weathered the desk top publishing storm because they had talent, worked hard, and did what they said they would do on the schedule they committed to.

It's going to be OK, but easy money, uhm... not so much.

Steve
 
And meanwhile, talented DPs are making thousands of dollars a day, with no kit. Go figure. It's all about your talent and connections, baby.
 
Tom said:
And meanwhile, talented DPs are making thousands of dollars a day, with no kit. Go figure. It's all about your talent and connections, baby.
Click to expand...

exactly!

I was mostly just coming from the standpoint of..
"wow, prices have dropped"

Im lucky enough to have already paid off all my equipment:)
so im not upset at all..

now i just gotta decide.. 2 scarlets? 1 epic?
they will produce the same image..
i rarely shoot high speed.. so hmmmmm
 
The guys that will work for nothing usually get nothing jobs.

They can go kill themselves to work with idiots who don't have a clue.

Plus putting yourself out on Craiglist is just asking for trouble.

I have heard of a few ripoffs at gunpoint. The rookie shows up,

meets the "producer" and bam - out comes the 9MM and your stuff is gone.

So, if you really want work then have some self-respect and go earn that business.

Don't buy it.
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
Plus putting yourself out on Craiglist is just asking for trouble.

I have heard of a few ripoffs at gunpoint. The rookie shows up,

meets the "producer" and bam - out comes the 9MM and your stuff is gone.
Click to expand...

That's what happened to Ketch. Some dude responded to his Craigslist ad, came over to his house, and then shot him several times and took all his shit. :(
 
Brandon said:
That's what happened to Ketch. Some dude responded to his Craigslist ad, came over to his house, and then shot him several times and took all his shit. :(
Click to expand...

WTF!!!
Ketch is a legend!

that dude has been through so much shit and yet comes out on TOP like a badass!


I use craigslist for the good ol' fashion casual encounters prank to pull on friends.. but thats all
 
Tico said:
Exactly what I was getting at. And wait 'till Scarlet makes its debut. Everything will change. And in a good way.

Thanks to the big RED catalyst. And other forward-looking companies.

Don't you love it?

:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Its almost the same thing that happend in the late 90s-2000's in the audio world..
Digidesign broke the barrier between big dollar professional recording studios
and home studios..

there are now alot more talented musicians and bands out there now, that are completely indie.. and it would not have been possible without the low cost of truly "professional" tools, that could be used in your bedroom.
 
however.... now that I think about it...

the camera is really only a small percentage of what it takes to make a feature:/
..still need people.. still need lights.. still need post... music.. sound design..

It actually might not do the same thing digi did...
but sorta
 
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