Canon L Vs Zeiss Primes

[Siva Kollipara]

Since Birger is shipping their working canon mounts.
In addition to the following Zooms
Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L
Now is the time decide the primes, can the experts throw more light on this topic so that the decision making process will be easy.

Want to know how many people recommend Canon OR Zeiss

Here are the few thoughts

How good the Zeiss ZFs are when compared Canon Ls..?

ZEISS
Zeiss do not have all primes in ZE version, so we have settle with ZF through Nikon-Canon Adapter
+ves
+They are color matched, even with Super Speeds/Ultra Primes
+Mechanically feels more like cine lenses
+The word ZEISS does lot of magic, perception has a role to play.

-ves
-When using adapter,people have complained about wooble OR little play, not sure how pronunced they are on cine style use
-One would definitely have to send it out to Ducloslenses/RPlens for modification, $250/lens.
-Cannot attach filters on to lens, due to modifications and barrel rotation
-Additionally we have to buy Redrock Follow focus($800) OR Inclino($1295+) to use with existing Impero
-Resaleability of lens is limited to RED-Nikon users(other users like 35mm adapter are diminishing)
-Warranty is void
-Breathing is noticeable
-They are almost a stop slower when compared with Canon

Canon L Series
+ves
+No need to buy additional follow focus
+we can keep adding 135mm/f2,180mm, 200mm, nothing such in Zeiss
+People have observed little to No breathing after trying 2 or 3 lenses.
+With programmeable Birger, we can get uniform rotation for all lenses.
+With Birger we can get 1/4 stop increments
+We can easily sell/buy one piece of lens
+Changing of lenses is fast between shots

-ves
-In the Event of Mount or Impero failure there is nothing to fallback on
-Lenses are Not Color matched (Someone please emphasize, how important is this especially when using with RED, Film is different beast for this)

Canon L Series 2.8/14mm - $2020
vs
Zeiss 3.5/18mm - $1500+$150=$1650
>>Canon is half stop faster
>>Canon is 4mm wider, which is a lot even at 1.6 crop factor
>>Zeiss is $380 cheaper

Canon L Series 1.4/24mm - $1699
vs
Zeiss 2.8/25mm - $826+$250=$1076
>>Canon is 2 stops faster
>>Zeiss is $600 cheaper

Canon L Series 1.4/35mm - $1180
vs
Zeiss 2.0/35mm - $826+$250=$1076
>>Canon is 1 stop faster
>>Zeiss is $100 cheaper

Canon L Series 1.2/50mm - $1400
vs
Zeiss 2.0/50mm(macro) - $1000+$250=$1250
>>Canon is 2 stops faster
>>Zeiss is $150 cheaper
>>Canon Focus is slower, as per some reviews
>>But the same reviews talk nothing but Bokeh @1.2

Canon L Series 1.2/85mm - $1870
vs
Zeiss 1.4/85 mm - $1050+$250=$1300
>>Canon is 1 stop faster
>>Zeiss is $570 cheaper
>>Canon Focus is slower, as per some reviews
>>But the same reviews talk nothing but Bokeh @1.2

Total Cost for set of 5 modified Zeiss ZF lens with Inclino is $7647
Total Cost for set of 5 Canon L lens is $8169

Please continue to debate on the additional points if I have missed any.

Thank you very much for your valuable suggestion.

Siva

 

[paul engstrom]

We've been able color match across combination of Canon lenses (not all of them Ls). I am not saying the lenses are color matched. I am saying that with REDcine, correction, AE, etc. that you do for every shot you can match things up. I'll be doing much, much more testing over the next few months to see exactly how different various lenses actually are re: color.

Also, I'm not sure what relevance focus speed has in your analysis. Not only are the Zeiss infinitely slower (they're manual focus right?), but I'm not aware of any current ability to even use auto focus capability. I'm thinking this is only relevant for use on stills camera (so perhaps future use on RED modular bodies?).

Personally, I've gone Canon route, but have been involved with a project where both were used (Zeiss and Canon). The Zeiss lenses are very nice, especially for the price.

 

[David W. Jones]

With the Canon EF mount, why limit your selection to just canon L or Zeiss ZF glass?

 

[Siva Kollipara]

With the Canon EF mount, why limit your selection to just canon L or Zeiss ZF glass?

Because budget is not unlimited
What other options do have, are you hinting Contax Zeiss..? or something else..? Thought they are going to cost more

 

[David W. Jones]

Well Zeiss Contax is one of the many possibilities.
That's the great thing about the EF mount.
All kinds of glass will adapt.

 

[Siva Kollipara]

We've been able color match across combination of Canon lenses (not all of them Ls). I am not saying the lenses are color matched. I am saying that with REDcine, correction, AE, etc. that you do for every shot you can match things up. I'll be doing much, much more testing over the next few months to see exactly how different various lenses actually are re: color.

I know we have spend some time in any color tools to color match them, considering a feature length project, wondering how much of a worry this is.

Also, I'm not sure what relevance focus speed has in your analysis. Not only are the Zeiss infinitely slower (they're manual focus right?), but I'm not aware of any current ability to even use auto focus capability. I'm thinking this is only relevant for use on stills camera (so perhaps future use on RED modular bodies?).

Yes, I was referring to speed on canon still bodies. Because we don't know how Birger/Impero focus works.
Which one do you think will be faster..? Electronic focus OR manual focus?

Personally, I've gone Canon route, but have been involved with a project where both were used (Zeiss and Canon). The Zeiss lenses are very nice, especially for the price.

So what's your impression about image appearance, which one did you like Zeiss Image or Canon image..?

 

[paul engstrom]

Matching between lenses wasn't a problem at all in our tests to date.

The non-L 17-55 and non-L 10-22 are excellent lenses for your arsenal. While we've also used L lenses, non Ls are good too. I've been extremely happy with a big, fast Sigma telephoto I've got too. Wow. I've heard the Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens does quite well (the lens I'm most interested in, I might add).

I'd be absolutely shocked if the Viewfactor knob interface isn't noticeably better than a pure manual focus. At the very least, it will get your hand away from the lens and the resultant image shaking issues that arise when close in on your subject. Its wireless. Its configurable for more or less focus pull per knob rotation.

At 10mm on the Canon there was no comparison with the Zeiss. That's the thing--you've got so many options with the Canon route; the Zeiss route is so limiting in comparison. The Canon glass is very nice (and so is the Zeiss).

You could do a pretty good job with just two lenses: 17-55 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. You'd only ever have to match two lenses (which apparently use the same level of glass in Canon's range - that is, L glass) and would have a huge range of focal lengths. You'd be about T3, which isn't horrible. And you're way ahead on the price. The 17-55 actually works okay with a mattebox by the way. You've got to position it carefully so you don't smack it into the filters when the lens extends, but it doesn't extend very much.

my 2 (or 3) cents.

p

 

[Joel Kaye]

I know we have spend some time in any color tools to color match them, considering a feature length project, wondering how much of a worry this is.

Not much. I've probaby shot 30 different lenses on my RED... a little color correction puts every lens closer than any normal human being can distinguish IMHO. Film stock, sensor and lighting changes will have more impact than two different pieces of glass on color because glass tends to introduce a very slight hue change and that's it. A couple percent cool or warm. Some lenses may be a little more or less contrasty. Very easily corrected for.

As far as images go, there's literally no lens I've put on my RED that I didn't find appealing. I like the Canon L's very much but I have to admit I really like the look of really old, cheap Nikon glass too. You're just going to have to do your own testing if possible.

As Paul says, you can get an adapter to go from Canon to a lot of other mounts. Wait until these VF Impero knobs get out there. If they really work it'll be hard for someone to convince me that the Canon route isn't THE premium way to go regardless of price.

I find having F/1.4 on wider lenses to be useful and Zeiss ZF doesn't offer that.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Canon "L" series lenses are great, but not all, you must choose carefully and only go with the new ones, and get the MK II's in the focal lengths available, as they are far better then any of their predecessors.

PRIMES:

14mm f/2.8L II is a must vs. first generation.
24mm f/1.4 II is a must vs. first generation.
35mm f/1.4 currently on first generation, but an absolute fantastic lens.
50mm f/1.2L currently on first generation, but an other great lens.
85mm f/1.2L II is a must have vs. first generation.
135mm f/2.0L currently on first generation but absolute fantastic lens and one of the sharpest ones as well.
200mm f/2.8L II is a must have vs. first generation.

The only non "L" that I could suggest will be the 50mm f/1.4.

ZOOMS:

16-35mm f/2.8L II a must have vs. first generation.
17-40mm f/4.0L only first generation available, older slower yet an excellent inexpensive "L" glass.
24-70mm f/2.8L great lens period.
70-200mm any f/ with or w/o IS this is one of the greatest zooms ever made.

only non "L" glass that i would suggest will be the 10-22mm.


As far as Canon EF vs. ZF or the new Zeiss glass made for Canon EF cameras, I have to say that after having shot with both on various of my 1D and 5D bodies, and most currently with my 1Ds III, there is a difference in the image color grading when capturing, that of Zeiss seems a bit more neutral then the warmer Canon "L" glass.

Sharpness, flair control, chromatic aberration, Barrel Distortion, are all well controlled better in the Canon "L" glass then the Zeiss, this lenses from Zeiss, have no par with any Cine Zeis lenses, they are far from the original Zeiss glass that I had used for years on my Film cameras, they are still great glass, and build very solid, but there is absolute no reason to go with Zeiss if you have a canon mount camera or use RED with a canon mount.

ciao