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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Batch Capture brings up Log & Capture NOT Log & Transfer

Hi editblog,
I'm sorry if i wasn't clear, the use of proxy files is strictly for offline editing.. so no, i don't want full resolution, i work with the _M files (1K) on 4K files, with low quality playback resolution and full frame rates for playback. I haven't encountered problems with transitions or effects (even though i don't do very many effects, i'm more of a storytelling kinda editor, not into effect heavy projects). Sometimes i render a cut to watch in full quality, but that's only when i have a good cut and i want to watch with the director. For a 10 minute shor film, it takes about 20 minutes to render... for a commercial its ridiculous how fast the render is.... For me, the proxy workflow works great... i guess each person has to figure out what works best for his projects...
cheers!
 
Ricardo Mehedff said:
Hi editblog,
I'm sorry if i wasn't clear, the use of proxy files is strictly for offline editing.. so no, i don't want full resolution, i work with the _M files (1K) on 4K files, with low quality playback resolution and full frame rates for playback. I haven't encountered problems with transitions or effects (even though i don't do very many effects, i'm more of a storytelling kinda editor, not into effect heavy projects). Sometimes i render a cut to watch in full quality, but that's only when i have a good cut and i want to watch with the director. For a 10 minute shor film, it takes about 20 minutes to render... for a commercial its ridiculous how fast the render is.... For me, the proxy workflow works great... i guess each person has to figure out what works best for his projects...
cheers!
Click to expand...

Yes Ricardo I understand the proxies are for offline. But I stand by what I said that these proxies aren't really ready for prime time editing. I would ask the question of your frame rate playback ... do you get full 24 or 30 frames per second all the time? I can get this when I really scale down my MacPro's processes but it's too much to ask for an edit suite. You say you are a "storytelling kinda editor" but most editors are that too. As a full time creative editor I tell stories every day. But often those stories are told in a commercial spot with a room full of ad agency people. We have to do things like work with transitions and picture effects and repos and such. Proxy editing isn't ready for this. My stories are told in music videos where I have to multiclip 100 takes of a song, proxy editing isn't ready for that either. My issue is how RED has sold the proxys as this simple and easy method of working and while the concept is there the execution doesn't work in practice in an awful lot of situations. That's why I transcode 99% of the time.
 
I moved to "M" proxies (4k 2:1) when I got my octopro on a Foo Fighters music vid awhile back. They play back realtime - no dropped frames on an FCP sequence set to medium playback quality. The sequence is pretty snappy too. I have also multiclipped them with no problems.

"M" proxies from 4K 2:1 work great... 4K HD not good... and I can't remember 4K 16X9 performance
 
yeah editblog, i understand what you're saying... that's why i said each person has to figure out what works best for his projects... for me the proxys work just fine for now.
BTW, i'm getting ready to cut a feature and i've been doing some tests with clipfinder and it seems to work great (thanks Hans!!) for replacing the prores cilps with proxys after having the final cut to then send the sequence to color for CC.. it just takes a little preparation and organization like undoing speed ramps and such (kinda like prepping a neg cutlist for a 2k telecine for DI)...
 
editblog said:
I'll just second the post that says if you create ProRes via ANY other method that Log and Transfer then FCP will open the Log and CAPTURE tool when trying to batch in the method outlined in the RED - FCP white paper.

IF you could work with us to confirm / deny this issue Craig it would be a HUGE help to a lot of us working in ProRes.
Click to expand...

Looking into it.
 
Cail Young said:
Craig, L&C will pop up if the referenced media was created by RedRushes/REDCINE/Redline - L&T only comes up if the original process was also through L&T. There is no workaround other than the Clipfinder method posted earlier.

Unless you can work some magic over at Apple.
Click to expand...

All is confirmed as stated. The problem is that AFAIK L&T is the only product that will currently create "quicktime wrapped R3D" files which is what is needed in this case. I don't think the other products do this at this time (I believe they all create "real ProRes quicktime" files. So, not popping up the L&T makes sense to me since the L&T deals with R3D files, not ProRes files, on the input side. Having said that, why it pops up L&C is a mystery to me, one that only Apple can answer. Having said that, I will try to work some magic over at Apple and, at very least, get some explanations. Whether or not I get solutions is yet to be seen.

I guess I have a question for you all...(mind you that I'm only a s/w developer and really don't know much about what you all do so be kind)
Once you have the file in ProRes and bring it into the FCS browser, why do you want to go back to the L&T window anyway? I suppose the answer is for the "logging" portion, right? Or do you want to apply color presets? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Craig
 
I think it's for going back native to send it to Color, just like workflow # 2 from the RED FCS whitepaper.

ProRes is great for editing, much more fluid experience than native, but you may want access to all the RAW bits in Color. OTOH, L&T is very slow when converting to ProRes when compared to RR or Clipfinder. So, folks would like the best of both worlds. Problem is:
"The name of each R3D file is used to create the universally unique ID number (UUID)
which is also referred to as the Clip ID for each ingested clip. This ID number, which is
not user-accessible, is used to track the correspondence between ingested clips and
the original source media from which it came. This means you can rename clips as
you ingest them, or afterward, without losing the correspondence between a clipʼs
UUID tag and the name of the original R3D file." (from the whitepaper)

So, FCP probably "thinks" your ProRes fooatge came from tape if it doesn't see these IDs…
 
Reinhart said:
I guess I have a question for you all...(mind you that I'm only a s/w developer and really don't know much about what you all do so be kind)
Once you have the file in ProRes and bring it into the FCS browser, why do you want to go back to the L&T window anyway? I suppose the answer is for the "logging" portion, right? Or do you want to apply color presets? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Craig
Click to expand...

I'll second what was said. Wanting to edit with ProRes and then conform back to the RED native Quicktimes for sending to Color. But more than that it comes down to options. I want to option to do what I want to do in post and not be locked in to one or two specific workflows.

And finally, it makes no sense that the user can't choose to get Log and Transfer or Log and Capture to a specific set of clips. To me it comes back to FCP being long in the tooth and getting these features kinda cobbled together. I don't want the software making these kind of decisions for me.
 
I agree with Rory.

The past few days, I have been trying to re-conform a RED project. I have tried all the supposed ways to do it and none of them seem to work as easy as the "whitepaper" would suggest.

It is a big mess that RED and Apple need to clean up.
 
Workflow #2 works fine here.

D you have any speed changes in your project?
 
A couple of freeze frames, that may be a bit of a problem. I guess my point is "What is the point of being able to reconform, if it only reconforms simple cuts!?!" I got the project second hand so it looks like it could have been set up better, but it just seems that everything is super buggy.
 
Well, offline in most cases is simple cuts…

But you are right, Media Mangler is still buggy. One needs to set up everything very careful, following the whitepaper and avoiding speed changes and most fancy stuff.
 
Is There A Way To Conform First?

Is There A Way To Conform First?

Hey,

I may be missing something so bear with me. It seems with the clipfinder method of re-building a locked edit to get back to r3d files - you must log and transfer an un-conformed version of your edit?

When you copy the .rdc directories over to the temp file it brings the entire r3d rather than just the edited portion. Is there no way to only log and transfer a conformed version? Rather than log and transfer first and then load the conformed .xml after?

I fear both the time and additional storage needed to first temporarily house the directories, and then log and transfer all of those files and store all of that new media.

Any help is of course greatly appreciated.
 
@Reinhart, any update on Apple allowing ProRes files to be created in 3rd party utils (RedRushes etc.) and then reconform back to the Native R3Ds?
 
I have been testing the workflow #2 method in the FCP white paper. Everything has been done exactly how the white paper says you should do it, including making the ProRes files from FCP L&T. There is a bug, when you get to #6, Batch Capture your clips to make them native. FCP opens up Log and Capture first, which didn't make much sense, but if you click cancel, it will then go to Log and Transfer. The problem that I encountered was that it said the Volumes Not Available, because they are currently not available. OK. Well I guess I will load up all the folders in L&T and try it again. This time it worked....sort of. It only read A023's folder and batched captured those clips, but not the other 14 folders. So I tried them one folder at a time. Still it only wants to read the A023 folder, and nothing else. Here is where I am stuck at the moment.

Anyone get further on this?

UPDATE: I resolved the problem. In the beginning I wanted to see if this workflow was going to work. I brought a few clips in from the A023 folder (the same clips that came in no problem). As soon as I saw it was going to work fine.... (and here is the mistake (or bug)), I loaded all the folders into the Log and Transfer bin and started selecting the shots I was going to use, then batched ingested all the clips at the same time. These are the clips that did not work when I wanted to re-ingest native. So in order for this workflow to work correctly for you, you will have to open one folder at a time, pick your shots, ingest them, clean the volume bin, and chose another folder, repeat process until all you finished.
 
Tim Rygh said:
I have been testing the workflow #2 method in the FCP white paper. Everything has been done exactly how the white paper says you should do it, including making the ProRes files from FCP L&T. There is a bug, when you get to #6, Batch Capture your clips to make them native. FCP opens up Log and Capture first, which didn't make much sense, but if you click cancel, it will then go to Log and Transfer. The problem that I encountered was that it said the Volumes Not Available, because they are currently not available. OK. Well I guess I will load up all the folders in L&T and try it again. This time it worked....sort of. It only read A023's folder and batched captured those clips, but not the other 14 folders. So I tried them one folder at a time. Still it only wants to read the A023 folder, and nothing else. Here is where I am stuck at the moment.

Anyone get further on this?
Click to expand...

Known problem with the Log and Capture launch...we're working on it.

Craig
 
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