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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

*** Premier CS4 vs. FCP 6 ***

*** Premier CS4 vs. FCP 6 ***

  • ADOBE PREMIERE CS4

    Votes: 41 45.6%

  • FINAL CUT PRO 6

    Votes: 49 54.4%
  • Total voters
    90
I had not cut anything in Premiere for nearly 10 years -- since v5.5 or something like that. I gave Premiere a test run last month, which was somewhat of a failure, but I learned a lot. I'm doing most of my RED post work now with Adobe CS4 though...

I now prefer using Premiere over FCP. While the UI has some slight differences and a few edit controls are a bit different, I think I like it better overall and the performance is nice and snappy most of the time. The direct integration is a lot nicer than the R3D Log and Transfer in FCP and I don't much care for all the restrictions on resolutions imposed by FCP flaws and limitations.

The big thing with the CS4 RED workflow is getting all the little bugs, quirks and limitations mapped out. Adobe Media Encoder is very unstable, so we render everything out through AfterEffects. However, not all Premiere elements can be linked over just yet, so a few work-arounds are necessary. The RED Adobe plug-in has some bugs related to OLPF compensation and how some settings for it can cause black output at full debayer resolutions.

Anyway, I'm salivating over the next update to the Adobe RED plug-in. I'm also hoping that Adobe will soon provide us with a better color grading solution on par with Apple Color (or better). They have given us Color Finesse with AE Pro CS4 and that's a start, but that's the weakest link in the CS4 workflow right now, IMO.
 
Well, for what I'm getting here I think it will be soon time to get a Master Collection :)

I appreciate as always all the inputs you guys have been offering and sharing here.

I know I have lots of study to do ahed of me, well more study to do I should say, as I'm already deep in to Photoshop CS4, Bridge CS4 & LR2.

At first glance I did like the FCP6 UI better, but this is just an initial design appearance which has nothing to do with workflow or actual use of the software it self, I'm sure that both are great performers as most of you have point out, with each its positive and negatives, bugs will be worked out by each manufacturer as they always do, and this happens in just about any program, including those that have come to us from RED, off course the big difference is that RED programs are FREE :) but still they need to perform right, and the RED team has been doing a great job on the upgrades fixing bugs after bugs and offering more and more with each improved upgrade, so is the same for Apple and Adobe with each of their upgrades, but off course been that their application have a much different end they must be that much of higher results.

I'll continue to give both a chance on getting me in to it, but as of now, despite the double amount of votes going to FCP, I'm leaning towards APP4 much more.

ciao
 
the master collection is not really neccesary,
the production premium gives you PPro,AE, PS, onlocation,illustrator Encore,Flash,Soundbooth, media encoder....

seems like everything I need for video production.....
and it's only $1700 vs $2400

all your really lacking is dreamweaver and acrobat pro, indesign,and fireworks....which are more design and web central

I was die hard Avid editor for years, and always viewed PPro as a wedding video tool.... but when I looked into it, I found although it lacked some of the creative tools of others....the way it handles video(bit depth,size,color) was the best of any of the desktop editors

And FCP having some of the best creative tools....but the worst in terms of high end video support(again bit depth, color and gamma....size of image)

It reminds me of the Mac vs PC commercial where they show the PC as good for spreadsheets and the Mac as more fun.....

Sometimes getting the math right is important.
 
mdharrington said:
the master collection is not really neccesary,
the production premium gives you PPro,AE, PS, onlocation,illustrator Encore,Flash,Soundbooth, media encoder....

seems like everything I need for video production.....
and it's only $1700 vs $2400.....
Click to expand...

Actually, if you already have Photoshop CS4, you can upgrade to production premium for $1099 according to Adobe's own website.
 
mdharrington said:
the master collection is not really neccesary,
the production premium gives you PPro,AE, PS, onlocation,illustrator Encore,Flash,Soundbooth, media encoder....

seems like everything I need for video production.....
and it's only $1700 vs $2400

all your really lacking is dreamweaver and acrobat pro, indesign,and fireworks....which are more design and web central

I was die hard Avid editor for years, and always viewed PPro as a wedding video tool.... but when I looked into it, I found although it lacked some of the creative tools of others....the way it handles video(bit depth,size,color) was the best of any of the desktop editors

And FCP having some of the best creative tools....but the worst in terms of high end video support(again bit depth, color and gamma....size of image)

It reminds me of the Mac vs PC commercial where they show the PC as good for spreadsheets and the Mac as more fun.....

Sometimes getting the math right is important.
Click to expand...

The reason I was thinking of the Master collection is exactly because it includes web tools as well, since I'm also looking in to learning a bit more of HTML to take care at list of my own web pages.

VMax said:
Actually, if you already have Photoshop CS4, you can upgrade to production premium for $1099 according to Adobe's own website.
Click to expand...


Yes you are correct if I was to go with the Premium package, I can upgrade from my new copy of Photoshop CS4 for $1,099 and if I went with the Master Collection I can Upgrade for $ $1,599.

ciao
 
HI laguun, I'm wondering when you say PPro has 16 bit rgb color precision, are you talking when rendering out of afx, as I thought ppro was 8 bit rgb?

I am using the cs4 workflow and luv it also, we were talking about the 8 bit limitation of ppro on another thread, obins thread I believe, so just wanted to clarify the above.

Thanks
Stricko
 
stricko108 said:
HI laguun, I'm wondering when you say PPro has 16 bit rgb color precision, are you talking when rendering out of afx, as I thought ppro was 8 bit rgb?

I am using the cs4 workflow and luv it also, we were talking about the 8 bit limitation of ppro on another thread, obins thread I believe, so just wanted to clarify the above.

Thanks
Stricko
Click to expand...

there is no 8 bit limitation.
 
Good to know.

Could I ask you guys on here, when you do a Sd DVD release of a movie, or high quality production, what mpeg2 software compressor do you use?

I've heard cinemacraft is really good, anyone willing to chime in on this, I would appreciate it greatly. Or do some of you have goto a big house to use the expensive hardware encoders?

Thanks
Stricko
 
i never really understood why PP has always seemed so unpopular to most pros for years...

like that kid at school who seems perfectly fine but has no friends...

laguun... well written comparison. will use it...

is better relevant?
apps are just apps... its what we do with them that counts

try switching to oil painting and having to decide on brushes, canvases and paint :)

play a bit with both... shoot a small test and cut it on PP4 then FCP

challenge yourself with at least one complex editing section..

then decide.

both are easier to learn then driving.


for a final decision. i would wait for NAB... you are Vegas based after all...
Avid will defiantly be there (with new RED tools). Apple at least should...
and the world of film and video as we know it just might change forever (again) in 2 months

which leaves you with plenty of time to practice your premiere/FCP skills before making up your mind.


another thing.
if what you will mainly do is editing work, then don't mind the math, bit depths, color spaces and other numerical realities. get a tool that cuts the way you like it to.

if you are after high end finishing work, know that it never ends at the software level. best 4K RGB handling still needs monitors (very expensive grading monitors), video cards and raid arrays... not to mention knowledge in handling, calibration and media management. there are great facilities across the world (and in LA ...) that are better equipped than you should ever be (unless you plan on becoming one) and are much more recommended for these final final steps


good luck choosing one


hector berrebi
slowair@gmail.com
www.schibber.com
 
hector said:
i never really understood why PP has always seemed so unpopular to most pros for years...

like that kid at school who seems perfectly fine but has no friends...

laguun... well written comparison. will use it...

is better relevant?
apps are just apps... its what we do with them that counts

try switching to oil painting and having to decide on brushes, canvases and paint :)

play a bit with both... shoot a small test and cut it on PP4 then FCP

challenge yourself with at least one complex editing section..

then decide.

both are easier to learn then driving.


for a final decision. i would wait for NAB... you are Vegas based after all...
Avid will defiantly be there (with new RED tools). Apple at least should...
and the world of film and video as we know it just might change forever (again) in 2 months

which leaves you with plenty of time to practice your premiere/FCP skills before making up your mind.


another thing.
if what you will mainly do is editing work, then don't mind the math, bit depths, color spaces and other numerical realities. get a tool that cuts the way you like it to.

if you are after high end finishing work, know that it never ends at the software level. best 4K RGB handling still needs monitors (very expensive grading monitors), video cards and raid arrays... not to mention knowledge in handling, calibration and media management. there are great facilities across the world (and in LA ...) that are better equipped than you should ever be (unless you plan on becoming one) and are much more recommended for these final final steps


good luck choosing one


hector berrebi
slowair@gmail.com
www.schibber.com
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post,

yes it is my only intention to edit only in house, not to do any final color grading, FX work and any type of High end delivery format work, for that I will depend for sure from as you say High end facilities that dedicate them selves purely to that, but I just need the over all control over the editing step, I will look forward to see what Avid also comes up with, but I think the simpler the editing app. is the better.

I basically just wanted to do the first edit my self then send it out to do the rest, not to be a control freak (which I know I'm :) ) but to me it is imperative to be able to tell my stories from beginning to end the way I see them, so editing is a very important aspect of such storytelling.

Funny you mention oil painting as I'm doing just that, Digitally off course using PX.

ciao
 
with Pre Pro cs4 and R3D, you need to have a lot of patience with the audio conforming or else it will be very unstable and crash, thats the one big issue to look out for.

CS4 has a float native engine as opposed to CS3 which was 16 bit max, but none of the effects are float a few are 16bit and most 8 bit. Most plugin manufaturers create 32 bit plugins, I believe the red plugin is 32 bit as well. However I only just installed CS4 on both my mac and pc machines, it seems to be blazing on the PC side but its slow on the
mac side.

render red fotage out of AECS4, as opposed to media encoder
 
Ketch,

Something for your consideration...

What I am going to be doing is using both in tandem.

There are a few features in PPro CS4 that are superior (mainly a nicer interface and a superior titler), but for the most part, I love doing my chopping on FCP. For me, FCP is far more stable, and has some great editing tools.

With the advent of CS4, you can now NATIVELY OPEN FCP XML PROJECT FILES! This is such a nice feature!!!

My hypothetical workflow is as follows: import R3D poxy files in FCP, chop in FCP, save out as XML, import XML in PPro, link to AE, render out your lovely 4k DPX! :)

The only thing that you are going to need is CC tools. Color is amazing, but no 4k (if that is what you are finishing in). And like what has been mentioned, you need some nice hardware to do fine tuning (color wise). If you can get over the CC hurdle, you have a great (though convoluted) workflow that allows you to edit like a pro and finish like a pro.

Just my opinion, of course!
 
Thanks again every one for your inputs, much appreciated.

Jared, I'm playing around with both applications, and was hoping for a solution with less exchange of programs, and possibly stay with Apple or Adobe, at the end of the day I really need to limit the number of applications aI have to learn to get the job done, or I'll be spending too much time on the desk instead of spending it on the field shooting.

I really like FCP, but now I'm really liking APP as well, so I'll be making a decision soon to which to go for.

ciao
 
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