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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cheaper Steadicam Options?

Huge thank you to Charles for chiming in; honored to have him share his knowledge with us. Here's my take away from the thread as a whole:

CHEAPEST (3500ish): FS PRO - Weight limit: 20lbs. A decent rig for the money, but less adjustable, which may cause the operator to work to keep the arm from flying away. The unit itself weighs 4lbs more than the Flyer LE. Requires extra cables which would have to be coiled around the post. It has its caveats, but it sounds like a usable entry level.

CHEAP (7500ish): FLYER LE BASE MODEL- Weight limit: 19lbs. Steadicam quality, as long as you're willing to accept the weight limitation. In the cheapest scenario, would either use a down-converter (such as the Decimator) or the Red LCD (which probably requires coiling a cable around the post). Reviews seem to indicate that performance is almost on par with its older siblings, but there may be cases where you can't fly all the gear that you want and stay under 19lbs.

MIDDLE (14500ish): ACTIONCAM RED EDITION or FLYER LE RED EDITION - Weight limits: 44lbs! and 19lbs respectively. Both sound like great products; ActionCam has substantially more weight capacity, and better ability to be configured, but relies on the Red LCD and batteries in its base configuration. FlyerLE Red Edition has the limited weight capacity already discussed, but provides a nice outdoor HD monitor, batteries, and a hard case.

TOP (25000+): PRO STEADICAM UNITS Weight limits: Pick your package.

OVER THE TOP (If you have to ask, you can't afford it): MK-V rotating head craziness.

Cheers,
Tim

EDIT: There are obviously lots of other solutions not discussed (GlideCams, FloatCams, etc) so this is not meant to be a comprehensive list, just a summary of some of the better/cheaper options.
 
So you get your rig and set out to practice... Seriously, take a workshop!

Take the workshop BEFORE you purchase ANY rig! If you are seriously considering flying a camera, take a workshop. Learn the craft before you "teach yourself".

This isn't "elite advise" but real advise. Ask operators who get paid to fly - they will tell you the same thing, "You want to be a Steadicam operator? Take workshop, then call me."
 
would you be better off to buy a real rig used...why limit your $$$ to fly R1 or lighter. Never know you might be the next Larry Mc conkey and get called to do bigger jobs that in turn would pay for your rig...just a thought
 
muffinny said:
Thanks Charles for your help.

I've got a quote for the Flyer Le Base Model from B&H and is 6,899.95$

I would definitively want to get the actioncam, but it is much more. So I'll think it over.

Thanks,

Ivan
Click to expand...

So:
$6900 base unit
$300 power cable to convert to Red
$450 Decimator down converter
$35 video cable

Total = $7685 + maybe $100 shipping

Not including motor (Inclino/Impero package is running around $2700 I think) and matte box (LMB-5 is running around $1300 I think). Also, assumes you're using CF for storage.

Not bad... and you can presumably upgrade to the HD LCD later on if you want to for less than the list price of $3700. (EDIT: I wonder if the cable in the center post works for both the SD and HD monitoring solutions?)

One other thought: I'm guessing battery status won't be transmitted, since the v-mount won't be the Red mount? Not a big deal, but I'm curious if there's a standard for that information, or if it only comes from the Red battery plate.

Cheers,
Tim
 
Overall Shawn, it's good advise and I too am a firm believer in workshops (having taught many myself). And I have seen many people who have developed bad habits with their rigs who would have avoided all of that had they started with a workshop.

However I'm always trying to keep my mind open to changes in the status quo. Back in the day (mine!), becoming a Steadicam operator meant investing a lot of money in arcane equipment and hanging out your shingle as a specialist. Now that there are so many rigs on the market at all different levels, there are also many "casual" Steadicam operators out there who are not aiming to make a living with it. They may be perfectly happy just banging around with the thing and considering it a "footstep reducer" more than anything else. As long as their goal is not to deliver dolly-like results, they will likely be satisfied with what they get, or perhaps they will find it to be all too much work and bother and end up selling it (I've seen plenty of instances of both).

One of the complicated things about the way that the indie/prosumer end of the industry has progressed is that there is a certain expectation of price point that is now expected. The RED has created a standard whereby the camera costs X, so the accessories should cost this or that fraction of X. I read that someone considers a given stabilizer to be too expensive (sometimes getting downright indignant about it--how DARE they charge that?!) and I think, you have no idea--it's patently amazing that you can get results that approach or equal the big rigs for a fraction of the price. Remember that unlike electronics, stabilizers are machined mechanisms that have not changed significantly in design for 30 years, so Moore's Law and miniaturization etc. don't factor in to their unit costs.

Sorry, I'm rambling a bit. But in terms of everyone who is considering buying a rig taking a workshop first--I think it would be great and they would all benefit, but I think realistically many will not end up spending the time and energy in practicing anyway, and are less likely to invest money in a workshop.
 
take a workshop

take a workshop

I totally agree with Shawn and listen to Charles. I am a producer myself and I had to produce shoe-string budget film, I could not hire real steadicam operator, so, I bought a glidecam smoothshooter and pro 4000 for rogue reason (for trying save money: but result was wrong), but I couldn't operate until I took stedicam workshop, then I upgraded to stedicam flyer, then I took another stedicam workshop again, I am 55 years old, it's not easy to remember and operate for my age. I kept taking workshop time to time to polish my skill. I still hire real pro for important shooting. I only operate for my capacity and comfortable situation. No pressure for my age.

Shawn Booth said:
So you get your rig and set out to practice... Seriously, take a workshop!

Take the workshop BEFORE you purchase ANY rig! If you are seriously considering flying a camera, take a workshop. Learn the craft before you "teach yourself".

This isn't "elite advise" but real advise. Ask operators who get paid to fly - they will tell you the same thing, "You want to be a Steadicam operator? Take workshop, then call me."
Click to expand...
 
Hey Charles, you're right. And yes, I should remain open to the newer ways of doing things AS the industry keeps evolving. Right too, your points on the prosumer side demanding a certain price point.

I love being an operator. I take it seriously. It is a craft that goes beyond "operating the camera". After working with so many operators and asking questions and listening and reading and assisting and then doing...

I'm just more concerned with "craft" surviving and being upheld. The benefits of taking a workshop far out weigh the purchasing of a cheaper solution and just using it.

I'm all for the everyone "can".

My first step to flying, talking/listening/assisting to Erwin Landau:
2259_1234301868.jpg

2259_1234301894.jpg
 
I respect the value of training. I also respect getting gear and experimenting with it without training (that's certainly what I did with my Red). To each their own on those counts. Anyhow, this thread was meant as an exploration of inexpensive gear options, so it wasn't intended to be for or against either learning approach. :)

Back to the subject at hand: I'm keen to hear if folks who have used the Flyer LE managed to include a motor and matte box in the mix and keep it under weight... seems like it should theoretically be possible, but any first-hand accounts would be appreciated.

Also, I'd be interested to hear from any ActionCam owners how well using the Red LCD for viewing works. The outdoor/off-axis viewing seems like it could be an issue, and I suspect if a hood were added that it might restrict the view too much, but hopefully someone with first-hand experience can weigh in.

Best,
Tim
 
Tim,

it's possible, I did modified older flyer and re-wired 2 pin lemo to 6 pin R1 power cable that feed from v-lock plate (top-IDX) and I remouted R1 brick and red power plate/element-technica v-lock system replaced from bottom IDX plate, also feed power to AJA down converter, it cost additional $1400. (excluding brick)

AJA converter about $1069.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&Go.x=19&Go.y=16&Go=submit

Lemo wire, I cut from red battery plate $175
http://www.red.com/store/404001

Element technica v plate $95 http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/view.php?p=49

connecters about $20

I did all soldering job myself and took 4 hours to complete.

Without lens about 13lbs, watch out your lens and motor. One of my lens weigh 6lbs, I can't use for flyer and I have another set up for heavyer rig.

PS. every wire go through in a post and nice to have on board red monitor to set up, I bought flyer for DVX and HVX, both camera were sold and I couldn't sell flyer, that's why still in my place.
 
Thanks for posting! Great to see it in action, and commendable work getting the battery plate rigged up! It sounds like it's definitely cutting it close on weight... lens choice will be critical I guess.

Cheers,
Tim
 
CHEAPEST (3500ish): FS PRO - Weight limit: 20lbs. A decent rig for the money, but less adjustable, which may cause the operator to work to keep the arm from flying away. The unit itself weighs 4lbs more than the Flyer LE. Requires extra cables which would have to be coiled around the post. It has its caveats, but it sounds like a usable entry level.

CHEAP (7500ish): FLYER LE BASE MODEL- Weight limit: 19lbs. Steadicam quality, as long as you're willing to accept the weight limitation. In the cheapest scenario, would either use a down-converter (such as the Decimator) or the Red LCD (which probably requires coiling a cable around the post). Reviews seem to indicate that performance is almost on par with its older siblings, but there may be cases where you can't fly all the gear that you want and stay under 19lbs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to the above, I have 2 questions.
(1) Would the fixed scarlet be a good camera to use as a light-weight steadicam?
(2) Since it's shoot out of the box, it should be light enough hands down to fit on the Flyer LE with everything. ((I know we don't have the specifics yet but i'm thinking it'd be under 19lbs with monitor and the basics you'd need.

BTW, for non-camera guys like myself this thread has been pretty informative so far. Thought i'd throw in my important questions while its prudent.

-Brian
 
tmorten said:
I
As far as I can tell, the difference is a power cable (listed separately at $300),
Tim
Click to expand...

Hello again,

I have been thinking for a long time and I think I'm buying the Steady LE. I tried to contact several times the Action Cam group buy without any response. Aside from that, I still think using the Steady LE and the Birger mount, I will be able to keep my rig pretty light. I am also using my Red LCD, and in the future, if I need additional monitoring, I might buy another HD monitor or the AJA downconvertor.

I have a question though. What's that 300$ power cable? I can't find it under accessories. Would it be possible to use the V mount that comes with the LE and the 300$ power cable and just plug it into the Red camera without doing any soldering?

Also could anyone recommend a Steadycam workshop in NYC?

Regarding the Mattebox. I have a Redrock Micromattebox. It comes with 19mm rods. I just contacted Redrock to see if they have any system that I could use to make it either a Clamp Matte or a 15mm with 60mm system and use the long valley one. Though for the price, I might as well just go with the Cavision one:
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=print_details&sku=CIMB4512H2

It has been a tough decision on this one. Definitively the weigh limitation might be an issue. But my thinking is; I am not going to get big gigs yet with my skills and equipment, so it doesn't matter whether I spend double on the Actioncam. I will get experience with the Steady LE, try to make some cash with smaller productions and use it for my own work (which I already have several ideas), and if later on I grow as steady cam operator and start getting better gigs that need more robust setups, hey Ebay is there.. :-)

Thanks to all for your input.

Ivan
 
I have spoken directly to the guys at ActionCam in Switzerland. To my understanding the group buy is happening.

The choice between Flyer LE or ActionCam was an easy one for me.

For 5000 USD more, I will never really have to worry about the weight issue. Whether with RED or Epic (1 year away). I can fully upgrade springs without ever having to worry about my reselling my rig.
 
I decided on the Flyer LE; mine is arriving next week, so I'll let everyone know how it goes (found a slightly used package that I was able to pick up for about $1k off the B&H price... $6600 for a Steadicam versus $14k+ for the ActionCam made the decision easy for me).

Regarding power, I've been told that the Flyer LE has a 3-pin Lemo connector. You could get an adapter cable made for your Red (or buy one stock from Steadicam), but since there is also a likelihood that you will want to power accessories (down-converter, lens motors, wireless sound, perhaps wireless video), Charles Papert was nice enough to recommend a P-Tap junction box to me:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/204182-REG/Anton_Bauer_PTM_PowerTap_Multi.html

I suspect that will predicate a couple of custom cables (one from the Flyer LE 3-pin Lemo to the P-Tap box, and one from the P-Tap to the Red), but at least it gives you the option of connecting more devices, and a fairly standard connector to work with.

Regarding matte boxes, I suspect the RedRock might be heavy for Steadicam work (allegedly 3lbs 11oz, not including rods and baseplate or top mounts). This one was recommended in another thread as a good light-weight option:

http://www.defoetech.com/95mmmboxpage.htm

As long as we are smart about using light-weight accessories (and really, that makes sense to do on any rig), and don't mount a silly lens (18-85 anyone? :)), the Flyer LE should support everything we need.

I'm thinking the weight will be:
10lbs Red One body
2.3lbs Red 18-50 lens
13 oz Dafoetech matte box
10oz two top mounts (cross this out if you have a Birger mount)
6oz one ET 18" 19mm aluminum rod (cross this out if you have a Birger mount)
TBD ViewFactor Inclino (cross this out if you have a Birger mount)
TBD RedByte Decimator
TBD cables/filters

So I'm just over 14 lbs before the Inclino, Decimator, and cables/filters... it seems totally reasonable that those will add less than 5lbs. If you have Birger mount, you are even lighter. I'll let you know what my experience is getting my rig wired up when it arrives... cabling challenges aside, I think the Flyer LE will prove to be a very usable solution.

Final note: I see that some Flyer owners have been able to rig up Robert Luna arms with more weight capacity... that obviously requires some custom work, and more expense, but it does seem like you can retain your investment in the vest and sled if you do decide you need greater weight capacity later. Also, I've been told that 19lbs is a conservative rating, and that in practice that can be pushed a few pounds without detriment. We'll see...

Best,
Tim
 
Tim:

Thanks for doing all this research - something I've been interested in for a while now. Thanks to all for the advice. I look forward to Tim reporting back (with pics).

Best Regards,

Nick.
 
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