Music video Timecode issues

[Jay A. Kelley]

I am using a Cantar x2 for playback. What I want to do here is take channel 2 from the Cantar and send it to the TIMECODE IN on the RED.

Will this work?

My goal is that I need all the takes to sync with the TimeCode from the SONG not the deck. I would normall send the timecode from channel 2 of the clip to channel two on the RED.. But I have learned that FCP cannot read audio timecode and I don't want to make anyone's life harder than it already is.

So the simple solution (If you can call it that) would be to send that timecode audio track into the RED timecode in directy, but I realize that one is digital and one is analouge.. So that could be a problem.

I'm really stuck here.. Any help would be great.. I need to get the timecode into the metadata of the RED files rather than the audio track if possible

jay

 

[John Cordell]

What I've seen done for music videos is to have an iPod with the song and timecode displayed on it. Every take starts with rolling on the iPod with the timecode counting up. That iPod then plays the song out via some sound system on set. The ambient sound is recorded onto the Red just as a click track.

In post it's just a matter going to each clip and setting the timecode by hand. If FCP, for example, you just move onto a frame with the iPod timecode showing and choose Modify->Timecode... and type in the timecode displayed. Takes about 10 seconds per clip, so it's not particularly onerous.

 

[filip kovcin]

I am using a Cantar x2 for playback. What I want to do here is take channel 2 from the Cantar and send it to the TIMECODE IN on the RED.

Will this work?

My goal is that I need all the takes to sync with the TimeCode from the SONG not the deck. I would normall send the timecode from channel 2 of the clip to channel two on the RED.. But I have learned that FCP cannot read audio timecode and I don't want to make anyone's life harder than it already is.

So the simple solution (If you can call it that) would be to send that timecode audio track into the RED timecode in directy, but I realize that one is digital and one is analouge.. So that could be a problem.

I'm really stuck here.. Any help would be great.. I need to get the timecode into the metadata of the RED files rather than the audio track if possible

jay

Jay,

first - you can check this site:

http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=26

to see is this ok for you. it's not for free, but it should work for you

second - (sorry if this is something you already know, but anyhow, i will write that, because sometimes it helps) you can use of course DIRECT audio (not TC) from SONG, i mean proper one from CD or file. it will be of course without timecode, but at least - since you do not need audio from the set contaminated with other noises etc, it will be more usable than nothing.

third - use any electronic slate (with TC display of course) and connect it to your second audio track where TC is recorded. it MUST works, but it steals a few seconds from each shot until slate is out of the frame

fourth - use ipod/iphone as previously suggested. it works also. there is free program designed especially for that purpose.

fifth - I THINK - that if you output TC track from your cantar it will work with TC in connector on RED. and TC will be recored as data not as AUDIO. i didn't work with cantar, but when working with other equipment, it worked perfectly.

sixth - this is more complicated, but it will work also (i am sure yo know about that already) - you need to find someone with any type of broadcast tape recorder, but with TC input connector. when your r3d files are already in FCP - not edited but just layed together in one big sequence on timeline (let's call it sequence 1) - record it to appropriate taperecorder, BUT connect your 2nd audio track to TC input connector. and before that - switch that recorder to EXT timecode, so it will use that one from your 2nd track. when you are finished - digitize that tape to your FCP as REFERENCE clip/sequence (let's call it sequence 2). it will have proper TC from SONG, so you can lay it on, say layer 2, above your previously prepared sequence 1.
now yo have both timecode and audio in one project.

seventh - similar to above, but bit different - use same method, but turn burned TC on when digitizing back to FCP. you will have also VISUAL reference of your original timecode.

hope that at least ONE of the suggested methods is ok for you.

filip

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Thank you Filip.

Right now it would seem I have a pretty good workable solution here it is:

1st: Generate timecode using whatever you have. Send it to the AUDIO track of a capture card in your computer (Be sure your timebase is the one you intend to you use when shooting)

2nd: Take your song into some sort of audio editing software. Turn it into a Mono file. Then back to stereo.

3rd Place your TimeCode track on Channel two: RE-Output the new song.

4th (Cantar users only) Place the new song into Majax and convert for Cantar

5th Load into Cantar

6th: Set Line Out to send Channel one to the left and Channel 2 to the right

7th: Set Fold Back Channel One to both sides (For playback speakers)

8th: On RED set for JAM SYNC

9th: When running playback, start the music at least 6 seconds before camera to give it time to catch the new timecode. It should be noted that currently the HD-SDI timecode signal is failing to refresh like the recording media is, so you have to ignore it!

This will give you timecode that matches the song every single take. Pretty cool.

Jay

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Good Grief

Good Grief

Ok most of what I typed is not even nessesary.

Turns out when you convert the file to play in the Cantar, it enters the timeCode based on your prefs. Then when you go to playback, Cantar automatically switches to the timecode of the file you are playing.

So it's like this:

get file from client.
Convert file in Majax
Send new file to client for editing
Load file into Cantar for playback and timecode jam.

Done..

That was a day.. But.. At least I learned a lot in the process! (Trying to make myself feel better!)

jay

 

[Cail Young]

Yeah if you're playing back a BWF audio file you should be able to read TC from the metadata. Then you can just link TC out from the Cantar to TC in of the RED.

Just make sure the Cantar is rolling first, as the RED does not re-jam after rolling, only on the first frame.

 

[Kwan Khan]

Does any one know how to create SMPTE code file in FCP for TC slate? I did it once but don't remember how.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Cail,

Yeah thanks for saying this again.. It bears repeating
Jay