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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FS 18-50mm RED Zoom lens for sale $5300

And Gabe..

And Gabe..

We are both busy and it is now 1 am my time .. you need to continue pre production and I need to sleep.. so how bout you add whatever you need here and we both hang it for awhile and I promise not to post anything for a given cool off time.. or if you like we can duke it out via private email and add the actual factual disagreements to a post review if they really are completely in dispute as I am sure some will be
 
Because yes I do absolutely disagree

Because yes I do absolutely disagree

I absolutely disagree that I had to sms you by 3 am or the whole deal was off... in fact that is why I sent the email at 1 am {1 or 2 pm your time}my time because I heard that you "might" be still up at 3 am if had info by then about shipping costs which turned out to be impossible even before that time as I claimed in my email as I could only do estimates via internet sites
 
but really if you want to post a bit then let me respond later

but really if you want to post a bit then let me respond later

I can wait or let things go and let some questions from others come in and get back to it later.
 
Only Chris is really paying attention. (You're awesome Chris) - I'm not saying that the whole deal would be off if you didn't call at 3AM ... I'm just starting with the simple question: Were you suppose to text me at 3AM to discuss shipping prices? If you were, than why were we discussing them? Why did you send the item when I said not to if it was over $100 ... and why did you send it before the time frame you set out for me to comply?

I wish I had gotten in touch with you right away ... I was asleep ... tired because I was up late doing things and waiting for you to get in touch with me.

That part of our plan never happened.

You got in touch with me saying shipping would be $140 OVER what we had agreed upon - and gave me two hours to comply which I did ...

But you sent it anyway.

I got in touch with you saying this wasn't okay with me BUT that I was honorable and we would work something out and not to worry about it --- and I mentioned that I could have rented a lens for the weekend for less money AND there are other lenses for sale for less money ... but despite that, I would do the honorable thing ...

and you went crazy and posted here, and sent me like 15 emails and facebooked my partner, all within a few hours.

This is no way to do business, and I truly am offended. So I'm offering to pay your shipping to get you and all that bad Karma out of my life ... to me that is so much more than fair. Shouldn't I just pay $100?

What do you think Chris? Maybe I'm totally wrong here ... and I may not be laying out all the facts. Clearly Kevin thought I was buying the lens ... and I needed it ... and he sent it ... but to me, in the same way his jumping the gun on going all crazy on me, he jumped the gun on sending the lens and didn't complete a few important pieces of our arrangement (which I believe I'm representing correctly ... Kevin?)

Other thoughts?
 
duh duh duh duh....duh duh

Judge Wopner, checking in for duty...

I don't pretend to know all the facts, but I'll comment on what I've heard so far.

From my point of view, based on limited information, both of you are right, but both of you caused this situation.

GABE, in this situation you really have to choose one - either a quick deal as you need it NOW, or you take your time and make the best deal with all your questions answered, best shipping etc. You have to forfeit one. Having said that, I'm guilty of the same thing. I tend to put all kinds of conditions and stipulations and I find it REALLY confuses and frustrates the seller. You say you put a clear stipulation with a maximum shipping value, but was it buried in one of dozens of emails/questions or clear and acknowledged?

KEVIN, why did you send a lens that wasn't paid for? Trying to help another Red owner in a bind is certainly admirable, but is a bit scary, particularly if the shipping quote is high (over USD$100-$150.) I just sold a lens and didn't send the lens until we had an absolute deal, and been over the shipping options 5 different ways. The buyer was in a hurry, but I wanted to make sure they understood, agreed and paid first.

-----------

The rest can just be put down to less than ideal communication.

Gabe, you may have over communicated, where a lot of the fine detail tends to get lost.

Kevin, you somehow missed, forgot or decided to override, the maximum shipping amount Gabe was comfortable with.

So what does this all mean? Probably nothing...

I've been in both of these positions, so I feel for both of you.

Best of luck, time to take a breath.

If I had to put forward an opinion - sorry Gabe, I think you should pay the man and get on with your life. Win some, lose some.

Kevin, in a show of good faith, maybe reduce the shipping down to Gabe's maximum shipping comfort? $5300 is a pretty good price, maybe take a small hit?

Anyway, there may be more to it, maybe not. That's my take.

Court adjourned.

duh duh duh duh....duh duh
 
jimhare said:
Court adjourned.
Click to expand...

Yes, Your Honour.

The Plantiff and the Defendant should be greatful for Your Honour's directions. Now you should pay Your Honour $5k each and be happy that you managed to resolve the issue without resorting to real lawyers!

Just split the difference equally and buy each other a beer, guys.
 
Kevin did not forget the maximum shipping amount. Why else would he have written me and said that I had two hours to comply, which I did, and told him not to send it, but he left early. Also, he went crazy on me, and the suggestion is that I pay him $5300? Well, Jim, your opinion is noted. I'd love to change your mind, but I hear you.

In our first exchange after he mistakenly (IMHO) sent the lens Kevin said:

"I'd like you to refund the cost of me shipping the lens to LA. in which case if I sell the lens to someone else in LA for the amount you agreed to pay and they agree to pay for a normal non-3 day ship rate I will gladly refund the difference back to you"

I agreed to do this, but apparently that wasn't enough. Do you really think I have to buy the lens rather than pay for the shipping?
 
My answer on the whole sms 3 am thing

My answer on the whole sms 3 am thing

I already agreed to that. I will pay for all shipping. I tried to make that point before.
I have looked over all the emails and contacts and will always believe that we had a deal over the phone and email to buy my lens if it was in good condition for the agreed 5300$ price.

And I will always believe that anyone who listened to the phone call on Monday would have believed that this lens was sold to someone who needed it and wanted it and only wanted to confirm that they got it by Friday shoot date at a possible limited shipping price. I never agreed nor could it be interpreted that if I did not make a 26cent SMS by 3am the deal was off.
I sent an email saying I was having trouble getting quotes at midnight in sweden which was many many hours before 3 am Pac time.
I sent an SMS after I got the shipping information about 3 hours later than 3 am to try and confirm higher shipping costs..



So in answer to a previous question and post I must reiterate "NO" I did not believe nor do I agree that sending an SMS of any kind was needed to confirm the sale.

I also believe that if a producer needed my lens for a shoot and they could not rent or find another one in time.. they would be grateful that I did what I could to get it to them even if the shipping costs were a bit miscommunicated. I might yell at them for paying the extra money and maybe even asked them to pay for them. But if situation was different and truly there was no other or cheaper lens to use on that day....

You are also right about not sending lens without payment ... but at the time sending on to LA quickly seemed to be the only method for me to complete my terms of the deal
 
I just want to pay the shipping and get nothing and go on with my life, as I've been saying for a while now. We had not figured out the terms ... and I haven't even seen the lens yet. We were looking into shipping and going to discuss how to work the rest out - check, cash, paypal, whatever. This was suppose to happen at 3AM and he didn't get in touch. I needed the lens for a shoot this weekend but I also told him I could rent one for $135 ... Kevin sent the lens without my consent ... in fact, against it in the time frame he offered. I agreed to pay shipping as he suggested and, in the same way he jumped to send the lens for too much money, Kevin hunted down friends of mine on facebook (I don't know how he did that), and went public without even 24 hours to let me do anything - I don't want to do business with him. Moreover, the deal was not done. Uh oh, the walls are closing in ... I'm loosing this argument aren't I? Am I nuts? I didn't agree to this deal ... I sent him an email within the time HE asked for saying we should "hold off" ... yikes.
 
Kevin, didn't you suggest that I pay for shipping and get nothing, and didn't I agree and wasn't that before all of this went public?
 
Gabe you're right I made that offer

Gabe you're right I made that offer

But that is not what made me go wombat on you.. I was and am still pissed that what weighed in your decision to NOT go ahead with I thought was an agreed sale to me was the following response to me:
(you could now get another lens.. cheaper)
On Jan 27, 2009, at 8:05 PM, Gabriel Cowan wrote:

I see, I just saw that you sent a text at 5:30 AM ... it does say to get in touch by 5PM your time ... not sure if I did that. I feel really badly. We will work something out but the thing is, there are now two other 18-50's for sale for $5000 and one of them is in LA. - I'm not going to screw you or anything ... but adding that money to the $300 over what they're selling the lens for is getting expensive. Maybe I'll pay you for shipping and buy their lens (still keeps me under $5300) and you can sell the lens to those other people you mentioned. This is just a suggestion ... again, I have no intention of screwing anyone, but I do need to take into account all these other factors (no text at 3, $100 cut off, get in touch by 5, other lenses at $5k) to come up with something fare.
Suggestions?

Thanks,

Gabe


You see for you this mistake no matter who did it only costs 3 hundred dollars..
and my interpretation is that you really did not "need" to buy my lens anymore so the 3AM and the shipping cost difference and me going postal is a way out.. sorry about that by the way.

So here's what we do now that I have your attention (actually I just noticed that the sms telling me to calm down late yesterday is I think the ONLY text you have so far sent me)

You don't have to do anything.... You don't have to pay me anything
I would rather that you had bought the lens .. but now we all know how these things should go.. and I will try and sell the lens to someone else and we will see how that goes.

thanks to everyone for the 3rd party calming effect .. at least on me
kevin
 
I noticed I misspelled fair ... how ironic.

What? No. That doesn't feel right either. As I've always said, I messed up here too. Let me pay you for the shipping or something, and lets be done with it. I have not bought another lens, but I do have some rented now for the weekend, so the issue is not pressing. Let's just hit the reset button and call it a day.

Does that sound fair (spelled correctly)?
 
Reading your post again, that's not true. I hear what you're saying, but just as I believe you thought that I "needed" the lens, why would you not accept my feelings and positions on the situation as legitimate and honest? You are wrong about that statement ... and honestly, I'm hurt that you keep making these accusations.
 
then I guess the other deal still stands..

then I guess the other deal still stands..

I will attempt to sell the lens for the same amount 5300
You can keep my paypal account on file or pick an estimate amount now
my paypal by the way is kjones at the alamofilms dot com adddress

" in which case if I sell the lens to someone else in LA for the amount you agreed to pay and they agree to pay for a normal non-3 day ship rate I will gladly refund the difference back to you"

and we will see how that goes.

the actual total shipping to LA cost 1903 swedish crowns which is 247 USD

so do what you feel like doing
kevin
 
Well okay then

Well okay then

Gabe ... you really don't have to pay me.. I have made the point I needed to make, gotten some more information and made my peace...

really ...

I am sorry about the rant..

I really needed to sell that lens
 
ah. a peaceful conclusion. now they are arguing about who should pay. they are now actually going, "let me pay for shipping, no....let me pay for it."

good work. very therapeutic. lovely ending.

my 2 cents. the buyer should pay for the shipping and call it a day. even though he stipulated that if it were more than $100 to not bother. why? because the seller maybe thought, "what the hell, i will cover the extra $140 of shipping myself, i just need to get this lens to that guy who is in need."

maybe the buyer then pays half the shipping? what about that fellas? buyer pays seller $125, they split the difference, and call it a day......

that is my verdict....
 
Chris Parker said:
ah. a peaceful conclusion. now they are arguing about who should pay. they are now actually going, "let me pay for shipping, no....let me pay for it."

good work. very therapeutic. lovely ending.

that is my verdict....
Click to expand...

You're hilarious Chris! :biggrin:
 
Hey Pawel,

I have a great idea. You sell me your Master Primes for $5300 each, and I'll pay for shipping them 10kms between your house and mine. :ninja:

Deal?

Jim

Pawel Achtel said:
Yes, Your Honour.

The Plantiff and the Defendant should be greatful for Your Honour's directions. Now you should pay Your Honour $5k each and be happy that you managed to resolve the issue without resorting to real lawyers!

Just split the difference equally and buy each other a beer, guys.
Click to expand...
 
Hey Gabe, I hear you. Again, I end up in your situation more often than I'd care to admit! :)

All I'm saying it sounds like you created a time pressure, which you need to take a degree of responsibility for. You can't say "I need it by Friday" and "I want to explore every option to keep costs at a minimum" in the same sentence. Obviously Kevin decided (on his own) that you needed it at all costs.

And I get it, Kevin ignored (or missed) your stipulation about maximum shipping cost. Really, I get that, and I'd be upset too. But that may have been swept away in the perceived panic you created.

That's all I'm saying.

Some deals go better than others. This one just went off the tracks a bit, but instead of making it MORE complicated with buybacks, cross shipping rebates etc., you should just work something out with Kevin and keep the lens.

All the best,

Jim

themusic said:
Kevin did not forget the maximum shipping amount. Why else would he have written me and said that I had two hours to comply, which I did, and told him not to send it, but he left early. Also, he went crazy on me, and the suggestion is that I pay him $5300? Well, Jim, your opinion is noted. I'd love to change your mind, but I hear you.
Click to expand...
 
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