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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Less expensive solution for editing, color correction and grading (4k)

For one thing said:
Apple should have their Gamma Correcting Team shot at dawn..:gun:
At IBC I spent loads of time hanging around apple's booth checking out Color. It likes to display on two screens, the apple engineers had also set up dedicated monitors for each system. So the left hand screen was totally off the monitor, the image in the right hand screen was displayed with a different gamma and almost perfectly matched the reference monitor, (the only difference seemed to be that the monitor had slightly more colours..). I went into System Prefs and both monitors were calibrated just as they'd come out of the factory "Apple Display".
Now the question in my mind is: should I calibrate my monitors to REC709? Or will that have the absurd consequence that Color will start to display the image incorrectly?
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fergus said:
Now the question in my mind is: should I calibrate my monitors to REC709? Or will that have the absurd consequence that Color will start to display the image incorrectly?
Click to expand...

OK, I've done some testing on this. I took a 2K TIFF of a color chart, and brought it into Color, where I took a screen shot, which I opened in Photoshop. Then I took the same TIFF and opened it directly in Photoshop. I had color management in Photoshop completely turned off, so it wouldn't interfere.

For TIFF files, Color does not try to apply screwy gamma correction. I performed the same steps again with a ProRes file, and discovered that Color does apply exactly the same screwy gamma correction as in Final Cut Pro with QuickTime movies.

So, if you grade from TIFF sequences (or probably DPX sequences) on a desktop display, calibrate it for Rec. 709. If you grade from QuickTime movies, calibrate for 1.8 gamma, 6500K, and hope for the best.
 
Was gonna put this on ePay! But here it is: Sony GDM-FW900 in perfect shape. The screen coating is perfect. Been in storage for years and works perect, get yourself a callibration puck and your in tip top shape...

It has BNC5 and HD15 connectors. $300 plus ship, I'm in Portland Oregon 97210.

David 503 358 837nine.

Thanks.
 
laboprod said:
I think all the graphic cards (nvidia or ATI) have 8bits per channel DVI output, not more, and the best LCD panels have 8bits per channel as well.

antoine.
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There are several mid-to-high end choices for 10bit LCD panels. eCinema and Cine-Tal on the high end, and HP's new Dreamcolor on the mid end of the price-range. I would, without hesitation, call these 'the best' LCD panels on the market.

There are also some really fantastic consumer televisions with 10-bit panels, including Toshiba's Regza line. It's no co-incidence, I think, that Cine-Tal chose one of these to show off their Davio device at NAB this year. I also use one of these for a client monitor, and it's quite fabulous.

But the biggest problem, at this point, is how few 10-bit graphics cards are on the market. I hear that Nvidia's upcoming line will feature the 10-bit 'displayport' connector, which I'm very much looking forward to. And ATI is now shipping a 10-bit professional display card that Dreamworks is using in-house with the HP Dreamcolor monitor they helped develop.


cheers,

John T.
 
The fact that you dont have a broadcast monitor does not mean you cannot grade properly.

To suggest FCS is the only way to go is just not right. Apple is not the be-all-and-end-all-of-all that is professional. The OP mentioned CF and Premiere and you can use After Effects which with the right plug-in eg: CineForms effects, Premiere's native 3-way, Synthetic Aperture, MB Looks, Speedgrade LUT's, you can grade 4K 32-bit images at 4:4:4. Can Color do this with ProRes footage?

Someone also mentioned being scared to transcode to CineForm, have you actually seen what the footage looks like?

Sure your monitor may be 8-bit but it is not going to cause your source material to band. And yes you are not seeng a truly technically accurate image but does not mean you cannot grade.
 
HP dreamcolor....

$3000 dollar 10 bit monitor

transcode to cineform 444, grade in color finesse in 32 bit floating point in 4K

get a quick raid set... and dual quads

with hardware and software....about $9000 including monitor and cineform 4k

This is PC of course...as I don't know if Mac graphics cards do 10bit output
 
so what do you think of my set-up

so what do you think of my set-up

Please let me know what you think of my plan of set-up:

- ATI 3870 HD
- AJA Kona 3 w/ breakout box
- JVC 24" LCD monitor (the newest model)
- Spyder Pro 2

Will this give me a decent enough grading environment? Do you think I would compromise myself if I went with the HP Dreamcolor, instead? What about the new LCD from TV Logic, which is also 10-bit? Has anyone used this?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

EDIT: I've just noticed that the Spyder 2 Pro has been discontinued, but the Spyder 3 Pro is out with lower price. Anyone has used this, yet?
 
I am perpetually amused by the worries people have about perfect monitor setup. In the audio world people have long accepted that there is no such thing as a perfect monitoring setup. You could only hope to approach "reasonably accurate" Even then you had a pair of low end boxes available to hear how your mix would sound on less than perfect monitors.
Reasonably accurate should be the goal for the budget conscious as well.Don't be too anal about your monitoring because it won't be replicated exactly anyplace, no matter what the marketing hype says. Light sources vary, ambient light varies, display types vary, people's vision varies. Good enough really is good enough right now. Especially since display technology is changing rapidly. There's no reason to spend more than 4k on a display for just a marginal improvement when within a year or so we'll have consumer devices that will perform better than the hi end units for less than the 4k price point. When it comes to technology spend your cash on what will improve your bottom line in the short run. The best of breed of almost any product is always way too expensive. 90% of the performance costs 1/3 the price.
 
OR you could hire a post house like Plaster City or others who have "indie" rates to do your online and RED conform on a PAblo 4K IQ?

MANY post houses will do it for that price on late night or after hours shift.

ITs client present real time finishing, so little or no render wait and you have direct input from start to finish.

For those who said they dont understand professional color. You obviously have not had to provide deliverables for a distributed film...

Broadcast "safe" is next to impossible in color much less without a calibrated monitor, and hardware vectorscope waveform monitor...

and if you are lucky enough for theatrical release, then you have a DI FOR transferring to film and on and on.

So the question is, are you building a career as a colorist or are you a filmmaker just trying to finish a project affordably?

If the latter, I'd personally hire professionals... they will pay for themselves in spades in time savings... and lets not forget comforming 4K desktop in tiny segments will take FOREVER. what is your time worth?
 
I actually received a quote for a recently shot indie from said post house that added up to slightly more than 1/3 the entire production budget. Even the indie rates were out of scope. Instead... I spent 8 days letting my intel imac dual 2ghz downres 3TB of R3D to 1K sized prores422, currently editing in FC on my PPC - when I'm done I'll relink it to the proxies on the intel machine and send to Color for the inexpensive grade and output to 2k ProresHQ...If 4k is really desired we can import the FCS cut to Premier pro and output from AE...

Regardless it can be done. And I wholeheartedly believe what Brainburst said...about the monitoring.
 
Joyfool said:
I actually received a quote for a recently shot indie from said post house that added up to slightly more than 1/3 the entire production budget. .
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I did not mean to endorse that house specifically, I just think those are smart guys on top of the RED workflow.

Times are tough right now, especially in LA with the SAG situation...
it may take some legwork, but you may be surprised...

I trust a lot of deals have to do with the cast, director, relationships, etc. sounds like the film biz to me. :matrix:

Another great guy is Shane Dillon, at Flying Spot Film and Transfer. He has
a "when I can get to it between oaying clients" rate that is quite good.

But to me, the question is... what are his long term goals, filmmaking or post?

IT ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO STORY... tell a killer story with Quicktime low res for now, and it wont matter how much post is... again IMHO.

Ive spent millions on 35Mm features. nobody cared how great it looked.
and in fact, if their comment after watching it is... "well, it looked awesome"

that is usually NOT a good sign :bleh:
 
K.i.s.s.

K.i.s.s.

What I have in mind is:

1) Use one 24 bit (8x3) monitor for grading.

2) Output video gamma TIF frames 4K etc. from the final CC.

3) Calibrate the film recorder to make the print match the video gamma frames on my one grading monitor. The filmout is "one light" since the output frames are all graded already for a single monitor, and the TIF have enough data to avoid histogram gaps even with more curves and LUT in the film recorder software.

4) If 3 does not work fully, run the output frames through my CC again to make a pre-compensated set of output frames.

5) Get close enough to get a pleasing result since the audience only knows what they see anyway... You will never get film to match a monitor exactly, but if you filmout test rolls and look at what you are getting you can get a feel for what way the head and toe are going so you hold enough back to loose later. So far it seems on track...
 
A Premiere Pro solution is possible, and integrates seamlessly with After Effects. Get a beefed up Quad-Core or Xeon workstation with a $1,500 graphics card and a ton of hard drive space and you'll be on your way.
 
Also, you can get a tube televison with s-video or component input and output a signal via firewire through a Canopus ADVC box. Way cheaper solution, and it works decent. At least this way you're seeing what you'll be getting . . . there's a huge difference in viewing color and all that on a traditional television than viewing it on a computer LCD. This is by no means a professional solution, it's a solution that fits a small budget. If you've got the bucks, get a broadcast monitor.
 
Post Quotes...

Post Quotes...

Joyfool said:
I actually received a quote for a recently shot indie from said post house that added up to slightly more than 1/3 the entire production budget.
Click to expand...

Apologies for not knowing exactly who I'm talking with here, but since my company was mentioned I figure I'm allowed to chime in.

In the bidding process it is often customary to include a smorgasbord of options. This includes services such as backup, DVD dailies, editorial space, conforming, data storage, VFX, titles, grading, mastering, deliverables, QC, Dolby, etc. If a proposed post budget ends up being roughly 1/3 of the production budget, it is possible that more services and/or more time allotments were offered to a project that may not fully require it.
Again, I apologize for not knowing more about this specific project, but I have a Red DI workflow that includes experienced colorists and Pablo DLP grading for films that have sub 300K budgets. We just have to know what we're bidding for and what the limitations are.
If this job went through a rock-bottom bid and it didn't work out, I wish I could do more. I really do. It is possible that "1/3" contained more than you may ever need.

michael

Michael Cioni
Founder, PlasterCITY Digital Post
www.plastercity.com
 
SpeedGrade 2009 with REDCode support

SpeedGrade 2009 with REDCode support

Chris Kenny said:
Feeding it the QuickTime reference movies might work, once Red updates the QT codec to do full quality.
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SpeedGrade 2008 supports the quicktime reference movies on the Mac.

SpeedGrade XR/DI 2009 supports REDCode directly through the RED SDK. It's currently in beta and all customers have access to the beta program.

It works quite well.

Hope this helps,
Lin
 
John Tissavary said:
And ATI is now shipping a 10-bit professional display card that Dreamworks is using in-house with the HP Dreamcolor monitor they helped develop.
Click to expand...

Which display card is that John? Is it for PC or Mac? I have a Dreamcolor and am looking for a 30bit card....

Jean
 
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