A market for trustworthy DITs?

[Justin Anderson]

This is probably the wrong section, but...

I've been DIT on several projects (I've never lost footage) and now I'm thinking of making it a little more official and am considering purchasing more gear and consulting with a lawyer to create contracts.

I've worked on several projects where the DIT didn't know what he was doing and ended up destroying a good portion of the project, so I recognize how important it is to do the job right.
One project I was working on had a $16,000 budget and the footage was accidentally lost. That mistake cost them $16,000, plus a lot of creative people's time and creative energy.

I wanted to know if there's a marketable demand for a good, trustworthy DIT and if you guys this is something I could pursue. What's a reasonable day rate for that job?

Thanks,
-J

 

[Ryan Patch]

I don't know, but I've seen in a lot of guys' signatures here saying that they're "local 600" DIT's, and I assume that's a union. I really have no idea about this for sure, but it might be a place to start.

 

[Ryan Patch]

From La Mirada and on the RED boards... are you by chance a Biola film student?

 

[Charles Nader]

Hi J,

Can you discuss more on this mistake. Did he/she lose the footage, deleted?

What happened?

thanks.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Yes, there is a market for good DITs. Not every job will be able to hire one, but the ones that do are generally happy. I've already had some situations where footage was lost during the editing process, and I was able to save the day because I went the extra mile and created a third backup. Sent the footage on a USB drive, everyone was relieved.

There are union DITs (I believe Brook is one of them) who will work on the high end feature and commercial projects and then there are the independents who will work on indie features, mid-level commercials, corporate, music video, etc. Brook could probably speak to the union side of things a bit better.

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

$16,000 only? Lucky it wasn't a real show! Never the less, the moral of the story is still there.

 

[Noah Kadner]

Of course there's a market for great DITs. There's also competition for the big jobs too.

-Noah

 

[J. Bernard Vallon]

I've heard of lots of horror stories. I heard of one so-called Red Tech loosing half of a days worth of footage due to a faulty drive and no backups to speak of.

Ive heard of drives being lost in the mail with no copies made before shipment, that mistake alone was easily worth 16k.

Don't know any names attached to any of these mistakes, but the stories get around.

I heard that on the set of Ironman, a tank ran over a fully loaded Arri 435. Thats pretty expensive.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I've heard of lots of horror stories. I heard of one so-called Red Tech loosing half of a days worth of footage due to a faulty drive and no backups to speak of.

Ive heard of drives being lost in the mail with no copies made before shipment, that mistake alone was easily worth 16k.

Don't know any names attached to any of these mistakes, but the stories get around.

I heard that on the set of Ironman, a tank ran over a fully loaded Arri 435. Thats pretty expensive.

Stuff happens, but I like to make sure I give myself the best chance it doesn't happen to me. That's why I go the extra mile for backup. Can never be too safe. If time allows, all Red data is backed up three times on set. Client leaves with 2 drives. If one goes down, they have a backup. If both go down or get lost, they have a backup. If both go down and i get hit by a bus and get killed...well, i don't have to worry about it at that point.

 

[Casey Green]

I can speak for Union jobs, as I am a 6 year member of the IATSE Local 695 Union for Sound and Video Engineers in Los Angeles, who technically have jurisdiction over Data Capture work.

Currently, the term DIT is being used as well, but the true definition of DIT (Digital Imaging Technician) is a technician who works with live video signals. The position was originally created for HD productions that have requirements of matching and balancing multiple Cameras, such as Sit-Coms where the DP would work with the DIT "painting" the Cameras, matching Chroma and Luma levels, etc. in a WYSIWYG monitoring setup. So the position of "DIT" in that definition is under the Local 600's jurisdiction.

On the other hand, the job of recording signals and playing them back, such as Video Assist, Video Playback within the scene, Off Camera Video Recording and Playback, and Data Capture and Playback (and of course, Sound Recording and Playback) are under the jurisdiction of the Local 695.

The term DIT is being used by people in some Camera departments as a substitute, but the accurate term is Data Capture Engineer. Since each Camera has different media and workflow requirements, not to mention a relative small amount of qualified technicians, each production has often had people handing these responsibilities from both the 600 and 695 Unions.

In the coming year, I'm sure the position of Data Capture Engineer will be better defined by the Unions.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I can speak for Union jobs, as I am a 6 year member of the IATSE Local 695 Union for Sound and Video Engineers in Los Angeles, who technically have jurisdiction over Data Capture work.

Currently, the term DIT is being used as well, but the true definition of DIT (Digital Imaging Technician) is a technician who works with live video signals. The position was originally created for HD productions that have requirements of matching and balancing multiple Cameras, such as Sit-Coms where the DP would work with the DIT "painting" the Cameras, matching Chroma and Luma levels, etc. in a WYSIWYG monitoring setup. So the position of "DIT" in that definition is under the Local 600's jurisdiction.

On the other hand, the job of recording signals and playing them back, such as Video Assist, Video Playback within the scene, Off Camera Video Recording and Playback, and Data Capture and Playback (and of course, Sound Recording and Playback) are under the jurisdiction of the Local 695.

The term DIT is being used by people in some Camera departments as a substitute, but the accurate term is Data Capture Engineer. Since each Camera has different media and workflow requirements, not to mention a relative small amount of qualified technicians, each production has often had people handing these responsibilities from both the 600 and 695 Unions.

In the coming year, I'm sure the position of Data Capture Engineer will be better defined by the Unions.

It will be great when this is all gets straightened out. I have given in and been going with DIT because it's what everyone seems to be familiar with. There's a lot of crossover, as you mentioned.

 

[Andrew Walker]

I can speak for Union jobs, as I am a 6 year member of the IATSE Local 695 Union for Sound and Video Engineers in Los Angeles, who technically have jurisdiction over Data Capture work.

Currently, the term DIT is being used as well, but the true definition of DIT (Digital Imaging Technician) is a technician who works with live video signals. The position was originally created for HD productions that have requirements of matching and balancing multiple Cameras, such as Sit-Coms where the DP would work with the DIT "painting" the Cameras, matching Chroma and Luma levels, etc. in a WYSIWYG monitoring setup. So the position of "DIT" in that definition is under the Local 600's jurisdiction.

On the other hand, the job of recording signals and playing them back, such as Video Assist, Video Playback within the scene, Off Camera Video Recording and Playback, and Data Capture and Playback (and of course, Sound Recording and Playback) are under the jurisdiction of the Local 695.

The term DIT is being used by people in some Camera departments as a substitute, but the accurate term is Data Capture Engineer. Since each Camera has different media and workflow requirements, not to mention a relative small amount of qualified technicians, each production has often had people handing these responsibilities from both the 600 and 695 Unions.

In the coming year, I'm sure the position of Data Capture Engineer will be better defined by the Unions.

This is interesting to know. I'm also apart of local 695. Would be cool if the DIT classification got kicked into 695. Not sure what I would need to do to change classifications. I know to join local 600 as a DIT its $7K, which I don't have just laying around.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I don't know about you guys but I've found that the true DIT/DCE is a guy who fills the role of clapper loader. My guys have to be around the camera and work with it and only when it's time to off load are they "allowed" to go to the computer and sort things out.

This of course can't be if we want to do CC gradings etc on set, but to be honest I've yet to experienced a "DIT" were I truly think they're qualified for that kind of stuff. IMO there's to much experienced involved for DCE's to be CC operators as well.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I don't know about you guys but I've found that the true DIT/DCE is a guy who fills the role of clapper loader. My guys have to be around the camera and work with it and only when it's time to off load are they "allowed" to go to the computer and sort things out.

This of course can't be if we want to do CC gradings etc on set, but to be honest I've yet to experienced a "DIT" were I truly think they're qualified for that kind of stuff. IMO there's to much experienced involved for DCE's to be CC operators as well.

That's how we handle things as well.

The 35mm clapper loader is loading now CFs and backing them up onto Nextos. CFs get erased after all footage is on LTO and project Raid. This workflow needs many CFs but after some productions they paid for themselfs. Never had a single frame lost nor one single drop-out. I cannot say that with the raid.

DITs who can handle a grading suite and come to a "pro" result are called colorists. However, I know colorists that spend some time on a set timing footage. I don't have the time for such things when shooting.

Hans

 

[Justin Anderson]

From La Mirada and on the RED boards... are you by chance a Biola film student?

Yeah, actually I am from Biola. How'd you know about Biola?

@charlesN:

For some reason this $16K production decided to trust their project on the school's public media drive that anyone has access to and can delete things from (it's also a RAID 0 array split across 5 drives). The 2nd backup of the footage was on a partially full Seagate drive that filled up around day 3 of the shoot and the remainder of the 2nd backup was put on the DP's personal external drive.

I told them this was a bad idea. Several times. I told them the public raid wasn't a trustworthy place to put the 1st backup and that we should have a dedicated 2nd drive at least, not splitting the footage among two drives which are used for the DP and director's personal projects.
Due to poor producing and a rushed financing schedule (at the 11th hour, the director took out a personal loan for most of the production) there was no money left over for safe, dedicated hard drives.

So anyway, the shoot was horrible for many producing/planning reasons, but about a month after the shoot the school's RAID drive was formatted for the new semester, just like it is every semester. The DP's hard drive was lost. Then the other hard drive for the 2nd backup corrupted and wouldn't mount.
I don't know if they tried any data recovery or if they tried putting the 2nd hard drive into a computer, but yeah...

That's how they lost $16K, and it's all in the director's name as a personal loan.

 

[Charles Nader]

Yeah, actually I am from Biola. How'd you know about Biola?

@charlesN:

For some reason this $16K production decided to trust their project on the school's public media drive that anyone has access to and can delete things from (it's also a RAID 0 array split across 5 drives). The 2nd backup of the footage was on a partially full Seagate drive that filled up around day 3 of the shoot and the remainder of the 2nd backup was put on the DP's personal external drive.

I told them this was a bad idea. Several times. I told them the public raid wasn't a trustworthy place to put the 1st backup and that we should have a dedicated 2nd drive at least, not splitting the footage among two drives which are used for the DP and director's personal projects.
Due to poor producing and a rushed financing schedule (at the 11th hour, the director took out a personal loan for most of the production) there was no money left over for safe, dedicated hard drives.

So anyway, the shoot was horrible for many producing/planning reasons, but about a month after the shoot the school's RAID drive was formatted for the new semester, just like it is every semester. The DP's hard drive was lost. Then the other hard drive for the 2nd backup corrupted and wouldn't mount.
I don't know if they tried any data recovery or if they tried putting the 2nd hard drive into a computer, but yeah...

That's how they lost $16K, and it's all in the director's name as a personal loan.

Hey J,

That sucks...I don't know why anyone would except you WOULDN'T back up to a Nexto drive...their only $200 bucks each. 16K-200 (2) 15.6K left. I'm sorry to hear that but in one way...I read tons of stories you have to back up the footage or don't format the card unless you do that...at least 3 times...at the very least once...wow...that's the budget for Robert Rogerqus first movie...that really suck.

Hopefully, they can recover the drive or find the DP's drive...How do you lose a drive...???

If I was the director, I would be fuming!!! Ouch...!!!

 

[Casey Green]

This is interesting to know. I'm also apart of local 695. Would be cool if the DIT classification got kicked into 695. Not sure what I would need to do to change classifications. I know to join local 600 as a DIT its $7K, which I don't have just laying around.

Well, I think the DIT as an Engineer working with live signals and not recording or playing them back will remain in the 600.

As Data Capture Engineer, however, you shouldn't need to join 600 if you are already in 695 to do this work.

I don't know about you guys but I've found that the true DIT/DCE is a guy who fills the role of clapper loader. My guys have to be around the camera and work with it and only when it's time to off load are they "allowed" to go to the computer and sort things out.

Well, it is an unfortunate part of the changing industry that the loader position pretty much goes away on Digital productions, but the reality is that the job of recording and playing back footage from off Camera (as in a device not built into the Camera) while on set is under the Local 695's jurisdiction, technically. (This includes files that are copied to a backup drive and then played back for various reasons on set, such as checking color looks, focus, exposure, or watching back the takes for the Director, DP, Script Supervisor... which is why the Video Assist operator is also a Local 695 position.)

The other part of the equation is that on the majority of Union productions (Features and Episodic TV) there needs to be a dedicated Engineer that is always available at the DCE cart. Backing up and logging incoming footage does take a good amount of the DCE's bandwidth, but being available to find clips for the Director and DP for checking focus, looking at exposure, matching Cameras, etc., is also important and often requires someone full-time in this position, depending on the type and scale of the production.

The position of Video Assist is still a separate job for several reasons. For one, on certain types of shows, such as Features, footage must be able to be played back immediately and not from the Camera. As soon as a take is completed, the Director may ask for playback, while the Camera crew is moving to their next setup. There is no time to download off of the Drive, plus Video Assist normally records from a down-converted SD source simply to cut costs by having smaller Drive requirements and a simpler on-set viewing method (Although HD is also sometimes used on certain sets, depending on the shooting environment, budget, and personal preference of the Director and DP). On smaller scaled productions, a single operator can sometimes fill both roles of Video Assist and Data Capture.

There are definitely a lot of factors and each type of show has different requirements. I'm speaking mainly from the perspective of Union narrative Features and Episodic TV, where I mainly work, but I'm sure on other productions of different scales, budgets, and styles, there can be different approaches.

 

[M Most]

I'm speaking mainly from the perspective of Union narrative Features and Episodic TV, where I mainly work,

Casey, we met a few years ago on "Without A Trace," didn't we? The Tony Goldwyn twins show, as I recall.....

 

[Casey Green]

Casey, we met a few years ago on "Without A Trace," didn't we? The Tony Goldwyn twins show, as I recall.....

Hi Michael,

Yes, you are correct. At the time I was the Video Coordinator (Season 3), and that week I was doing split screen work with a Video Assist cart (to help line up the shots where Tony was acting opposite "himself".)

Good to hear from you.

 

[M Most]

Hi Michael,

Yes, you are correct. At the time I was the Video Coordinator (Season 3), and that week I was doing split screen work with a Video Assist cart (to help line up the shots where Tony was acting opposite "himself".)

Good to hear from you.

You too. You made my life a lot easier that week.