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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Transcode time (PRoRes HQ) FOREVER?

K

Kevin Toaster

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First post, and first venture into Red. Very pumped to start editing...however!

Directed a music video on the Red One using build 18 and a set of Anamorphics. Looks hot. I've backed everything up and am now transcoding the R3D files to ProRes HQ files so I can start editing right away.

I don't want to do an offline / online workflow, so within Redrushes, I've set my export options to achieve (I believe?) the best QT files possible to pull into FCP:

Debayer: Full Res
Timecode: External/TOD
Look Source: Camera
Color Space: REDspace
Gamma Space: REDspace

Resize to 1920 x 1080
Fit to width 2x

So far, one clip - 4848 frames (aka: one take of a 3.5 minute song) has taken about an hour and a half to transcode.

Is this right? Seems a bit loooooong to me :/

Rockin a MAC PRO with Two 2.8 Quadcores / 4GB RAM.

Thoughts?
 
Yeah, it'll do that. You may want to do a test and see if you can tell the difference between full and half debayer since you're going all the way down to 1920x1080 anyway. You might want to consider more RAM. Lastly, if you intend this to be your final transfer ("I don't want to do an offline / online workflow") I would think you would want to use RedCine, since RedRushes is geared a little more towards, well, rushes.
 
Hey thanks for the quick reply.

Running a test on "Half Res High" as I type this.

Is there a noticeable difference between RedRush render versus RedCine render (or transcode)?

What about time to transcode between the two - one take longer than the other?

-KC
 
Clip Finder

Clip Finder

Hi,

I'd recommend using this wonderful app called Clipfinder. Put this name in the search pannel, and you should find it very quick. Not that it will give you a faster render time, but you can be more efficient with it. Also, it's got a very good interface.

If you're doing everything in house, I'd seriously suggest offline/online workflow, too.
 
I have seen the light using Color and an uncompressed workflow. The results are amazing. The implementation is not perfect yet, but I love being able to correct from the R3D files in Color and export an uncompressed timeline to Final Cut. I can't wait until this all get smoothed out and hopefully works flawlessly. ProRes is really good, and very manageable. But I am impressed with R3D to Uncompressed.
 
Our test show that 1/2 res debayer is substantially faster with virtually no loss in quality when down-rezing to 1080p. As mentioned above, the Clipfinder app is outstanding and will serve you well. We shoot almost everyday and I can't imagine dealing with footage without Clipfinder (until FCP actually supports native files). Best of luck.

Nick.
 
Nicholas Shields said:
Our test show that 1/2 res debayer is substantially faster with virtually no loss in quality when down-rezing to 1080p. As mentioned above, the Clipfinder app is outstanding and will serve you well. We shoot almost everyday and I can't imagine dealing with footage without Clipfinder (until FCP actually supports native files). Best of luck.

Nick.
Click to expand...

I agree. There are some exceptions to the rule, but 1/2 Res High is excellent and could get you by 98% of the time for properly exposed footage being transcoded to 1080P. And I love Clipfinder. I have used that extensively, and it works great.

If you have fast storage, the native workflow that currently exists is also a cool way to work. Wrap the R3Ds into QT, edit, export to Color, correct, export back to FCP uncompressed. But there are currently limitations, bugs, and incompatibilities that are hampering it, but I see the potential of what might be coming. It COULD be really cool. Also, you can use a workflow that uses ProRes as an offline, and correct in Color with R3Ds.

Many ways to skin a cat, and it all depends on your editing system's power, the complexity of your project, and how much time you have to complete the project.

We managed to use the Native workflow for the 4K Challenge, and it worked out well, but it wasn't without some bumps in the road. But still, considering we only had 72 hours to prep, shoot, edit, color correct, score, and sound mix the project I was surprised that we were able to use that workflow. If I had more time with it, I might be able to make it smoother.
 
Kevin, my reason for suggesting RedCine over RedRushes was that if you're only wanting to do one transcode of your footage, you want it to look the best the first time. RR just applies the Colorspace & Gamma but doesn't give you any control as far as adjusting exposure, individual color channel adjustments, etc. I haven't used Clipfinder so I'm not sure of the functionality there. Just don't want you to spend 3 days transcoding to find out that the exposure was off a little and you need to go back and re-transcode.
 
Hi nuelsen,

Clipfinder works very efficiently with Red Alert, where you can open a R3D in Clipfinder and adjust whatever you need to. You can do best-light render by going through all the R3D's or do one-light transcoding by assigning one .rsx to all the clips.

Best,
 
This is all very helpful.

I wonder if I can back up for a minute and ask a very fundamental question before I proceed down one of these paths.

My onset data manager organized all of my R3D files within their respective folders. I was expecting to see a folder and within that folder 5 files: a single R3D and 4 proxies.

However, I'm seeing that within some folders there are two, three and sometimes four R3D files - BUT only 4 proxy files. It also appears that there is a 2GB "theme" going on here. For example:

A013_C001_0119BK.RDC
>A013_C001_0119BK_001.R3D (2GB)
>A013_C001_0119BK_001.R3D (735 MB)
>A013_C001_0119BK_F.mov
>A013_C001_0119BK_H.mov
>A013_C001_0119BK_M.mov
>A013_C001_0119BK_P.mov

In the P2 world we saw this as "spanning". Any idea what's going on here? Also, Do I need to ingest / transcode all R3D files within it's respective folder?

Or did my data guy make some backups and not organize properly?
 
Kevin Toaster said:
This is all very helpful.

I wonder if I can back up for a minute and ask a very fundamental question before I proceed down one of these paths.

My onset data manager organized all of my R3D files within their respective folders. I was expecting to see a folder and within that folder 5 files: a single R3D and 4 proxies.

However, I'm seeing that within some folders there are two, three and sometimes four R3D files - BUT only 4 proxy files. It also appears that there is a 2GB "theme" going on here. For example:

A013_C001_0119BK.RDC
>A013_C001_0119BK_001.R3D (2GB)
>A013_C001_0119BK_001.R3D (735 MB)
>A013_C001_0119BK_F.mov
>A013_C001_0119BK_H.mov
>A013_C001_0119BK_M.mov
>A013_C001_0119BK_P.mov

In the P2 world we saw this as "spanning". Any idea what's going on here? Also, Do I need to ingest / transcode all R3D files within it's respective folder?

Or did my data guy make some backups and not organize properly?
Click to expand...


Nope- Thats correct. Thats because of the 2Gb file size limitation for FAT32 file system, which is the filesystem you are recording to on any Red Media (and is the only file system naively supported by both Mac and Win).

So when your take is longer than 2Gb, it will split it into a second file. However all of Red's tools, and most other applications, will see all the R3D files as one file. Think of it as loading a whole RDC folder, not just one file.

BTW, the second (smaller) R3D file should be named "A013_C001_0119BK_002.R3D", not "A013_C001_0119BK_001.R3D"
 
So as I ventured into RedCine, I have tried multiple times to load a shot, but each time I point to an R3D file, RedCine crashes. Any ideas why this would occur?

We shot with anamorphics / Build 18.

RedRushes worked just fine.
 
Go REDrushes or Clipfinder. As described here before, you can do a very good one-light with the RSX from REDAlert before converting. I found REDCine quite unstable (after all it's clearly labeled "beta").
REDrushes and Clipfinder profit a lot from RAM, 2 GB per core is really helpful, since they'll start several threads with enough RAM.
 
Photocon said:
Nope- Thats correct. Thats because of the 2Gb file size limitation for FAT32 file system, which is the filesystem you are recording to on any Red Media (and is the only file system naively supported by both Mac and Win).

So when your take is longer than 2Gb, it will split it into a second file. However all of Red's tools, and most other applications, will see all the R3D files as one file. Think of it as loading a whole RDC folder, not just one file.

BTW, the second (smaller) R3D file should be named "A013_C001_0119BK_002.R3D", not "A013_C001_0119BK_001.R3D"
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct..."002.R3D"

Thanks man!
 
KnockOutFilms said:
Doesn't Redrushes read the rsx from redalert and apply all the changes?
Click to expand...

spot on, man. if you have a look you want for a specific batch of shots, you can create your look in Red Alert, save those settings as your RSX and then export via Red Rushes with those RSX settings applied to your desired pieces of footage.
 
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