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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Studio / Red DI indie style

J

JackSilver

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Hi,

I've been trawling the forum looking for everything RED and here is what I've come up with, I'd love any suggestions.

I am working with a company who are putting together a business plan for a RED Studio and are getting ball park figures, for cost estimates. I want to impress my bosses, so have been putting some ideas together myself.

I'm keen to get some input from experienced RED Producers and Shooters out there.

Here's what we're looking at, thus far:

Editing:

AVID Symphony Nitris DX - $35,995

Colour Correction/Viewing Monitor - $3,500

Effects, Animations and Titling:

After Effects BOXX – $5,000

Location editing

MacBook Pro Avid and Final Cut x 2 – $5,000

Sound editing/finishing:

Pro Tools HD - $15,000

Finishing:

BOXX Red (Scratch Assimilate) - $43,000
Film Light Baselight - $75,000

Storage:

50TB Stirling Storage Server - $22,000

3D Visualisation:

Real D - LCD, DLP Based TV, Software license and 40 foot projection stereo screen - $30,000

Cameras:

RED One x 2 - $35,000

RED Epic - $30,000

RED Scarlet x 2 - $6,000

RED Accessories - $80,000

TOTAL: $385,000


So my question to REDHEADS is, what would you like to see at such a facility? We want to cater for 2k and 4k, and would ideally like the flexiblity to shoot stereoscopic 3D (hence the 3D screening spec) and also hence the doubling up on each camera. So there would obviously be a 3D rig and 3D license in here.

It would be great to include a film laser scanner and to have the facility to move to and from 35mm (when this was a client requirement). What do I need to be able to bring 35mm into this facility and what do I need to film-out from the red raw? What price would I be looking at, and which providers? What should I watch out for in terms of potential problems?

Sound -- am I missing anything, other than a foley set up? What sort of price and size would I be looking at for a functional foley room? (I know that's off topic, but I also know that some wise redusers will have an idea, or can point me in the right direction).

I'd love to hear any feedback, ideas for inclusion, ideas on pricing, workflow headaches or suggestions.

Web references, suggestions, links, companies... all are verywelcome!

Thanks for reading.

Jack
 
With out going line by line I would say there is at least another 100k hidden in there.
 
Thanks for the reply. Do you mean in the calculations, or are you suggesting in additional equipment??

Thanks
 
For a facility - You need a high quality screen and 2-4K projector. You have audio but no audio gear listed.

Software - Crimson (want to cater to all), plugins for AE/FCS...

Camera Accessories - said nothing about cases, sticks, matte box, FF, filters, head, etc.

Insurance.

Additional edit/SCRATCH suites? Would suck only being able to service one client at a time.

The dollars you listed are slightly off.
(And I would wait on budgeting for Epic/Scarlet for now AND budget higher for them.)
 
Hi,

With a DI post facility, the Colorist will be the most important piece of the puzzle, his input will be very important.

Stephen
 
Cooke RED lens set + RED's Prime set
Actioncam
Optimo 12:1
water housing
Quantum LTO 4 HH
AJ-HD3700A or AJ-HD3700B series D-5 HD VTRs & AJ-HDP2000 2K processor
 
Off the bat, here what's poping up in my mind:

More computers equipment (workstations, servers, networking equipment, printers, ...) You surely need a station to do some Photoshop and alike. Also a few spare CPU can act as a render farm to speedup process.

Audio equipment:
-microphones and at least a sound booth if not a room for voice over, dub and foley.
-Audio studio monitor for your sound setup, editing rooms and viewing rooms. Those room will also need some sound acoustic design.

Furnitures:
-Specialised desk are required for good post-production workstations. some companies sell them but I prefer to have them made custom by a local shop to get exactly what I need.

Colorist worksation will need specialized control surface and they are not cheap! A few K$ will go there.

You didn't tell if it's a new facility, a conversion of a space or an extension of an existing place of your own but make sure you budget things like cabling, lighting (editors and colorists don't like those 4' tubes in the ceilling), flooring, etc.

IMHO, film scanner/printer is really a no go as it is very expensive to acquire/maintain/operate. You can offer the service to your client but outsource it somewhere as the demand will likely be low and be downward from now on.

I agree with Eric: at least another 100K if not two.
 
To be another person on the bandwagon. But Eric is right. I can say for sure you have many more dollars to spend. Your forgetting the most important part, like desks and chairs....there's more to list but hopefully that helps.
 
Thanks for the info.

I'm sorry I didn't mention, space/buildings we already have. Projection, surely will be capable on the REAL D 40 foot screen, with the projector they supply. Of course it is a 3D/stereoscopic, but I don't see that this is a barrier to projecting 2D, is it?

Desks and lights, are excellent additions, and something I hadn't contemplated... chairs/tables for normal workstations are in the buildings...

Additional workstations are an excellent idea, and I take note about the scanner.

Again, thank you for your time and comments. If there are any other words of wisdom, you can share, I'd appreciate it GREATLY.
 
Following up from my earlier question:

What kind of lights would best suit editors/colorists?

What sort of price on creating a small soundbooth in a room (anyone have an experience) - what sort of size should I contemplate, any examples online. Also, position wise, where should it be relative to the rest?

Good call on the Tape backups... excellent idea. I have sourced these online for modest amounts.

Also the audio Studio Monitor -- but what brands should I be looking at (any recommendations?) and any ballpark figures?

Thanks a bunch.
 
For sound monitor I use M-Audio BX8 and BX5 for my editing rooms. Those are not too expensive and do a fair job. For a mixing room, you may need to invest into something better but since I don't have a mixing setup I cannot recommend specific brands.

For the light, something that you can dim very low (and dont have dimmer noise).

Maybe you should go to a NAB-like expo to tour the different manufacturers. At least buy some pro-audio magazines, you'll have plenty of info, reviews an photos of setups to inspire you.
 
-Sounds like you're on the right track...

You will probably want to consider some type of high-speed data infrastructure.

GigE won't cut it. 10GigE is still pretty expensive and unproven for post-production. You probably want to look seriously at 4Gb (or 8Gb) fibre channel.

You could probably expect to pay about $500+ per HBA card (per computer) plus maybe $5K for a half-decent 12-port 4Gb switch. Cross-platform software for the SAN fabric and array will probably run at least another $5K with client licenses and support.

I don't know if the Stirling Data array you listed can be used as a fibre channel storage array without adding some significant hardware. It's listed as a NAS server- and Ethernet connectivity simply won't cut it for moving HD, 2K or 4K frames around in your facility.

**edit** - Looking at the Aberdeen website, it seems they may have some storage solutions better suited for SAN environments...

good luck!
 
Hi,

You should first hire professionals that will use the tools wich will give you concrete advices on what is needed.

Getting here and there some good ideas to fill your shopping list is definitly not the way to go. Only with an overall overview from end users will make a working studio. You are asking for the tires and the seats of a car but you should ask yourself what chassis should the car be build on, this also means wich use you will have.

What is your best skill? Creative, post-production, editing, finishing? I can't imagine a studio build up from ground without skilled people, only based on tools.

My 2 cents.

Patrick
 
Patrick Tresch said:
You should first hire professionals that will use the tools which will give you concrete advices on what is needed.
Click to expand...

You should also at least consider talking to and hopefully hiring at the very least a consultant who has experience in facility design and implementation. You're asking questions on an Internet forum, and getting answers from people you don't really know, and who may or may not have any real expertise in this area. Free advice is all well and good, but it is, in the end, free advice from strangers. I certainly wouldn't put together a business plan based on free, anonymous opinions, no matter how sensible they seem to be. I would seek out and hire either an individual or a company that does this for a living if it's out of my personal area of expertise.

Just MY two cents.
 
Thanks for all the info.

Yes, I agree that Pros who are doing infrastructure design for such projects are the best, and of course the plan will be to hire one...

At this stage, I'm out on my own, searching, learning etc. -- one) to earn brownie points from my bosses and two) to gain a much better understanding, from people that are using various technologies which I perhaps haven't.

So, this is part intellectual exercise.

Interestingly I have met a couple of very well established "gurus" via this post, who would seem ideal candidates for "consultancy" when this project goes ahead.

My over-riding goal is, as a RED enthusiast, finding a way to put a RED studio together and make it a reality... and I would have thought, the best place to start these enquiries would be here!!

Anyway, thanks again for all your comments, they are much appreciated and I look forward to receiving any more knowledge, tips or links... so that I can continue learning and researching.

THANKS!
 
I'm not sure if I know what I'm doing but something about your plan caught my eye.

You suggest having a FCP/MacBook Pro system to edit on site and then an AVID system to edit back in the facility.

I would think you'd want to have the same software for both - a FCP system in house and a FCP system for on site editing, or an AVID system in house and an AVID system on site as well. I would think that products started on FCP would stay on FCP and vice versa.

Better yet, based on the passion I see on either side, I think having both systems available on your editing workstations might be best, and in the great scheme of things probably would not add that much money to your budget. Final Cut Studio is only $1,299 per station. (I don't know anything about AVID although I think they are much more expensive, at least when compatible with RED formats).

You can run AVID on Mac and PC, and of course FCP is Mac only. Fortunately, I think Mac Pros are pretty price competitive machines nowadays.

I'm not an expert in any field but computers and maybe some other folks will laugh in my face and say I'm wrong, but from a computer guy's perspective, if you want maximum revenue, give people the software they want in all cases and it will pay back.

Hope that helps.

D
 
David Dennis said:
Final Cut Studio is only $1,299 per station. (I don't know anything about AVID although I think they are much more expensive, at least when compatible with RED formats).
Click to expand...

Media Composer software is $2500.
 
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