best workflow for quick turn around on a laptop?

[doondoon]

I'm trying to get a client to go with RED instead of HPX-170.
I'm going to be shooting roughly 2-3 hours per day (mostly on the fly interviews and b-roll) on a 4 day shoot.

So between 8 and 12 total hours at the end of the job.

The client is very inexperienced with post... so I'm a little worried about handing them drives with R3D files (I'd rather hand them pro-res files).

I shot the last piece on the HPX-170 and they called me about 5 times with very basic FCP workflow questions... so if they can't handle that without issue then I'm sure they'd have problems with RED.

My question is:

What is the quickest workflow that would enable me to take between 2-3 hours of R3D RED footage (after shooting each day) and transcode it to Apple Pro Res. I want to be able to hand them two drives at the end of the job with all of the footage transcoded to Pro-Res so they can plug in and start to edit in FCP immediately.

All I have to work with is an intel based Macbook pro laptop.

Is this feasible? I'll be doing all of the transcoding myself (after the shoot days in my hotel room).
My gut tells me that I'd be biting off more then I can chew (time wise).

Any advice or experience on shoots similar to this?

 

[Joyfool]

I think you might find that 2.5 hrs of footage takes more than 24 hrs to transcode on a dual core machine. I recently trancoded 2.5 TB of footage over 8 day

 

[doondoon]

I think you might find that 2.5 hrs of footage takes more than 24 hrs to transcode on a dual core machine. I recently trancoded 2.5 TB of footage over 8 day

yeah that's what I was afraid of.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I would advise the following strategy.

Assess what the post house has for editing systems. If it's Final Cut Pro, make sure all of the versions match the requirements for Red files. If they are editing on PowerPCs then everything would have to be transcoded beforehand before they can even touch it. It is critical to make sure they can handle the post end before you steer them towards Red. I can't stress this enough. Otherwise, it's headaches for everyone later on.

Unless you can be sure that there will be some benefit to doing the transcoding yourself, you might want to avoid it. You'll suck up a lot of your time, and start to lose money. Your time may be better spent training someone at the post house to do it, once you have established they have the proper system requirements and personnel to do it.

There are many workflows. They all have pros and cons. You have to know when to implement them based on the project's requirements. It's dangerous to go in without a plan. There will be problems. But a carefully established workflow that starts on set and is followed through to final online will make a happy client and get you more work later on.

Otherwise, stick with the HPX170. That might be the right way to go with this particular client if you are not confident in their post abilities.

 

[doondoon]

I would advise the following strategy.

Assess what the post house has for editing systems. If it's Final Cut Pro, make sure all of the versions match the requirements for Red files. If they are editing on PowerPCs then everything would have to be transcoded beforehand before they can even touch it. It is critical to make sure they can handle the post end before you steer them towards Red. I can't stress this enough. Otherwise, it's headaches for everyone later on.

Unless you can be sure that there will be some benefit to doing the transcoding yourself, you might want to avoid it. You'll suck up a lot of your time, and start to lose money. Your time may be better spent training someone at the post house to do it, once you have established they have the proper system requirements and personnel to do it.

There are many workflows. They all have pros and cons. You have to know when to implement them based on the project's requirements. It's dangerous to go in without a plan. There will be problems. But a carefully established workflow that starts on set and is followed through to final online will make a happy client and get you more work later on.

Otherwise, stick with the HPX170. That might be the right way to go with this particular client if you are not confident in their post abilities.

Thank you Steve. This is good advice.

We've got a tech/post meeting scheduled so I'll find out what they're system specs are. I have a feeling they're going to be scared away very easily by RED (even if their system is more than capable). I don't think they really have a "post house" per say... they've got more of an in house "editor"... most likely working on a very basic system.

This company is not production savy at all....they're sort of from the Do It Yourself ilk.

It seems like a lot of this comes down to salesmanship and I'm not the best salesman. I'm better with a camera


This fact is frustrating for me as my client base seems to be more "pro-sumer" oriented/comfortable. Selling them on the value of RED, getting them to appreciate it and not be scared is a trick.
It's not so difficult to sell a fairly seasoned producer on RED because they understand the very basic principles of 35mm film (and that RED is delivering something very similar)... in this situation RED sells itself. It's different when you're working with people who are totally ignorant to what's going on in the production world.

I want to start paying for my RED camera with these clients and know they'd be blown away with RED results if they'd only give it the chance.
I know this might seem a little selfish but if I can deliver much higher quality product at **about** the same price then I think that's a win win situation.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Thank you Steve. This is good advice.

We've got a tech/post meeting scheduled so I'll find out what they're system specs are. I have a feeling they're going to be scared away very easily by RED (even if their system is more than capable). I don't think they really have a "post house" per say... they've got more of an in house "editor"... most likely working on a very basic system.

This company is not production savy at all....they're sort of from the Do It Yourself ilk.

It seems like a lot of this comes down to salesmanship and I'm not the best salesman. I'm better with a camera


This fact is frustrating for me as my client base seems to be more "pro-sumer" oriented/comfortable. Selling them on the value of RED, getting them to appreciate it and not be scared is a trick.
It's not so difficult to sell a fairly seasoned producer on RED because they understand the very basic principles of 35mm film (and that RED is delivering something very similar)... in this situation RED sells itself. It's different when you're working with people who are totally ignorant to what's going on in the production world.

I want to start paying for my RED camera with these clients and know they'd be blown away with RED results if they'd only give it the chance.
I know this might seem a little selfish but if I can deliver much higher quality product at **about** the same price then I think that's a win win situation.

Your situation is not that uncommon. And I don't blame you for wanting to show them the merits of Red. Perhaps offering them a workshop that would go over the workflow you would like to implement for them. That could help take some of the mystery or clear up any misconceptions they might have about the camera and post. They may still decide it's too much for them, at which point you back off the Red and put in place the right camera/format for them. If you push too hard, it could compromise the relationship, so make sure to watch those boundaries.

For some Red seems like overkill. And it might be. I just shot a project in MiniDV because it was appropriate for the job. I could have pushed for the Red, but it just didn't make sense given the parameters of the project, and the final destination. Knowing when to put Red in the mix is a key to marketing it. I admit, it's hard going to any other format knowing what Red can deliver for imagery. But we know it's not always about image quality.

Hope this helps.

 

[Uli Plank]

That's such excellent advice, Steve!

Currently the Red hype is all over Germany after our most respected magazines here finally "discovered" it after bashing it before – sometimes they are a bit slow ;-)

Many people turn to me now, since they heard I'm teaching the stuff and just want to know how to work with the camera. The first thing I always check is: are they up to it in post? If you got used to make nice HD images with DVCProHD or sometimes just HDV on a laptop, working with Red footage is not a pleasant surprise!

I just had to talk a documentary production with a very fascinating subject out of using the Red – for various reasons, but data-wrangling and post not being the least.