How to control RED from 3 miles away?

[LCamak]

I know the guy who can advise you. Bob has done this with many launches from bunkers using both HD and film cameras. PM me and I'll get you in touch with him.

FWIW, I seem to remember he used a timer to turn ON and off the camera at the appropriate intervals (the windows that are open for launch if the first one is scrubbed). Problem is I don't know how to turn ON the RED without pushing the button, but I'm sure someone can figure that out.

NASA has restrictions with cell phones and wireless.

For the record function he used a small and cheap shock detector hooked to a GPIO. As close as the camera is, the Atlas will start pounding the ground almost before any gas is visible. I saw his footage, it missed nothing of the launch that was visible from the bunker.

Use the Cards, hard drive will probably drop frames on the shock waves (like just discussed regarding use of blanks). Wait til you feel it from 3 miles away. Not enough there to drop frames, but very noticeable.

He was allowed to set up only 24 hrs before launch. Anyways, this guy is wonderful to give you all the info. There is much more to consider regarding salt water air, condensation on the lens, camera support and the shock waves. Most importantly Bob has unbelieveable connections (Bob co-founded the Apollo I memorial and annual memorial services there for Grissom, Chaffe and White).

I let him use my Kinor 35mm camera once. With what the camera went through just in being next to the ocean for over a day(might have been 2 days as they don't exactly let you run out as soon as its launched), I declined further launches.
All the best,
lael

 

[David Birdy]

I wonder if launch sound/vibrations may cause drive to skip? May want an Element Technica isolation mount?

Put camera in the bunker with an Ac adaptor.

Use the RED Ram

Take the output of the HD out to a "Stratos" or similar HD-SDI to fiber transmitter and run single mode fiber to the viewing sight 3 miles away.

You can then monitor what is going on with the camera and have the option to make a redundant record copy!

For record back-up:

Input the HD-SDI signal into the AJA-IO that is hooked up to your MAC running FCP,(Pro-Res) and record to a raid 0 hard drive as aback-up to your
RED Ram drive.

Just saying this is a way to make it happen..with redundancy!

If you don't want to purchase the above equipment I can rent it to you!

Dave

 

[Tom Frisch]

Don't you guys think that if vibrations/shockwaves will affect a red drive, it will also affect a computer (especially with RAID0) at the same location?

-Tom

 

[David Birdy]

The computers on-board the payload of the rocket seem function :w00t:


Dave

 

[axosluis]

Maybe

Maybe

Maybe, whit a Digital Radio Control System,like the RC plaines

 

[Joel Kaye]

Seems like a timer that causes the GPIO to connect would be a very simple solution. I think this would do it.

http://www.flexcharge.com/flexcharge_usa/products/programable_timer/programable_timer.htm

If you don't think a timer would work then I think the cell phone idea would work. Put a cell phone on vibrate and rig a mechanical connection for the GPIO connector.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

I like the cell phone idea. Insist on a location survey, and then determine if the bunker has cellular coverage. The boxes from the website mentioned previously seem like a good solution (http://murtonsys.com/gsm/index.htm).

Build a cable that goes from the activation device to the camera's 4-pin lemo jacks. Configure your Red so either jack is set for record start (you want to minimize possible screw-ups here). Test it like crazy. Does it ever NOT record when sent the appropriate signal? Does it ever STOP recording unexpectedly? Is there any way to confirm that it is actually recording? Is NASA cool with your solution?!?

I also like the idea of a backup! Buy or rent some sort of HD flash recorder (flash means NO moving parts or hard drives that could crash) and set it to record on a loop. If you attach both an LCD and an EVF to your Red the SDI outputs will show a clean frame with no framelines or data. Ensure that you have access to the bunker soon enough after the event so the loop isn't recorded over!

Obviously you'd want to power the Red from AC. I don't know of any way to make a Red reboot if power is lost.

I would be very wary of using a Red drive in these conditions. If you have a reliable way of activating the camera hopefully a 16G card would be enough record time (if you can't get the SSD drive). Ask NASA or your client about launch windows and built-in holds in the countdown. 5 minutes to lift-off is not always 5 minutes in NASA land.

I could be persuaded to work on a project like this for surprisingly little money!

 

[Michael Brennan]

Having done a few implosions and explosions over the years is offer the following general advice;

See how it was done before. Cherry pick the advice, you may be able to do better.
Push hard for more than one camera. Sexy angles and shots come from having a master shot and taking a risk with additional cameras.
Plan a solution for all negative eventualities, rain dust bugs ect.
Don't skimp on preparation time and testing especially if you are building new bits of kit.
In respect to trigger hard wire is best if you can run it safely across roads. Canobeam may be approved and is easy to setup.
Control of exposure essential on windy partly cloudy day.
A backup plan of a pressure pad to trigger camera will save the day.

Sweep clean area between camera and rocket to minimize flying debris ask for a road sweeper
Duplicate cameras (even if it is not RED) with big c/u so editor has something to cut.

For the effort you have to go through you won't be happy with a single bog standard shot.
Production may struggle to understand or be able to pay for your R&D time.

In theory a wide lens on one of the nearby towers would be nice, it would be pointing down and away from blast. A complimentary camera in same position but shooting up should be relatively easy to protect and give a sense of the rocket going up past camera and perhaps suffer less acoustic shock.

The different angle or shot will be the one that everyone before you has said is too hard. Try and get client and production to signup to the drama and risk of what you are doing.



Mike Brennan

 

[Petr Dvorak]

Maybe, whit a Digital Radio Control System,like the RC plaines

... you will launch rocket accidentally, he he
I expect there are strong restrictions with all types of radio emiiting devices

 

[Matt Mascheri]

Hi all,

Well the launch has been moved around a bit, and the RED looks like it may not be used for this launch, but I finally got some info from the ULA on how they have their bunkers set up. They use dark firber to send video controls to the camera. We would have to supply the fibre modem to send the camera a signal, it is the only way.

So my question is, has anyone controlled a RED via fibre? I found a site that has a number of different fibre modems -

http://www.tccomm.com/Modems.htm?gclid=CImVsPTup5kCFSPxDAodAGr7pw

Thanks

Matt

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Rent a helicopter

Definitely safer to be on a helicopter prior to a great shockwave than inside a box...

:sarcasm:

 

[Vigen Vartanov]

Hi all,

Well the launch has been moved around a bit, and the RED looks like it may not be used for this launch, but I finally got some info from the ULA on how they have their bunkers set up. They use dark firber to send video controls to the camera. We would have to supply the fibre modem to send the camera a signal, it is the only way.

So my question is, has anyone controlled a RED via fibre? I found a site that has a number of different fibre modems -

http://www.tccomm.com/Modems.htm?gclid=CImVsPTup5kCFSPxDAodAGr7pw

Thanks

Matt

Good day , Looks like any fiber modem solution can not help you .
You need to send signal to trigger . You need to make some module that will be controlled from RS422 ,
and will work like trigger for red. How are you planing to get camera signal with this modems ?

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

Theres a bunch of switches that are RS232 or RS422 controlled that can control contact switches. Use those to attach to the GPIO port on the red, then use the fiber modem to send control signals to the RS232 device. I dont know model numbers, but it should be pretty simple to be done. I know those RS232 systems exist, as I have a couple I use for home automation.

 

[Tom Visser]

I also program embedded control systems... specifically those by a company called Crestron. If you can get plain copper 10/100baseT ethernet, via some fibre transcoder, you could use something like this:

http://www.crestron.com/products/show_products.asp?jump=1&model=QM-RMC

I could provide a very simple program and webpage (hosted by the above device) which would allow you to open/close relays, send RS-232/422/485 commands, infrared codes, even send TCP/IP commands to other local LAN or even WAN devices. If you check eBay for CP2E, MP2E, MC2E, or any other "2-series" controller, they would work too. The MSRP of those units were higher but might be readily available used for less.

(the webpage / web app is really a container for a JAVA application which uses Internet Explorer ActiveX controls and at this point in time, I can only deploy for machines running MS IE7 or higher either served from the controller, or executable files hosted locally on the PC, but socket still open to the controller)

 

[Matt Mascheri]

Hi all thanks for the replies!

Tom, very interesting. I'll have to check into if a fibre to copper solution is available. Again it may not fly on this project, but it never hurts to think about the next.

I'll shoot you a PM once I hear back from ULA.

Matt

 

[George Wilcox]

I'm thinking you should be able to use a laptop with wireless internet to monitor and control the camera. You just need to know what the IP is so you can log in with remote desktop. I don't have one yet, but it seems reasonable to assume this would work.

 

[Karl Gustav H.]

Bump as I was just watching the launch. Did you get to record it in the end?