Shooting from first person with Mirrors in Scene?

[michael zaletel]

Is it possible to shoot with a moving camera from first person with mirrors and reflective surfaces in the scene? How exactly could this be accomplished? Has it been done in any feature films and if so, how? In Post with special effects work?

If a scene starts with the person looking into a mirror, that's easy, but what if you are shooting from first person and person walks into a bathroom that has two mirrors or perhaps walks down a hallway and glances into mirror as they walk by? Also, what if you are trying to film from first person perspective a person walking down the street and turning occasionally to look in reflective store windows?

Any YouTube videos of this effect being pulled off would be greatly appreciated. I have some ideas of how I would do it for a short I am thinking about making but I'm thinking it would only be possible with extensive post work maybe even going so far as frame-by-frame retouching in Photoshop for the transitions when Character turns towards a mirror. Once they are looking at the mirror or reflective surface, it's pretty easy. It's the transitions as they turn that I cannot wrap my head around.

The dramatic purpose would be to highlight how often people look at themselves in mirrors and reflective surfaces as they walk through homes, offices or down the street and how that affects their emotions and perspectives relative to other people and things they are interacting with or observing.

Please advise,

-shooter

 

[Jason Murphy]

Watch Being John Malkovich for an example of this done well. I'm pretty sure they used FX shots, though not sure how exactly they worked them.

That said, I'm 95% sure I saw a similar type shot in Rouben Mamoulian's adaptation of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - and that was made in 1930. Have no clue how the hell they pulled that one off, would have to rewatch the movie to see if I could tell.

 

[Shawn Booth]

You can also cover the camera and operators with duvey, have everyone wear all black, paint them out in post... Just plan and rehearse -

There's a black jacket you can get but I couldn't find it on filmtools.com or studiodepot.com. You can get it at both though.

 

[michael zaletel]

You can also cover the camera and operators with duvey, have everyone wear all black, paint them out in post...

Hi Shawn:

If the crew is in black, how would you capture the reflections of objects that are behind them? My main concerns are two scenes I have in mind.

1. Character is walking down the sidewalk of a small main street environment looking forward but then glances left to oncoming cars and notices their reflection in a passing window as they also notice the passengers in the car. Would shift focus to point this out and then character looks straight ahead again but then turns right looking into a store window and again focus shifts between objects in the window and their own reflection.

2. Character wakes up from bed and walks by mirrored closet doors looking this way and that and then into a bathroom that has mirrors on two opposite walls from entrance.

Can you help me figure out the shots I'd need for the layering and masking in post and how to simplify with the black out solution you mentioned?

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'd really like to pull this off well.

-shooter

 

[Shawn Booth]

Can you provide overhead diagrams of the sets? (Including main street)

A lot of times, it's about the angles.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

"Lady in the Lake" is another example of a first-person POV movie -- it has a mirror shot in it I believe.

You can't really break the laws of physics -- if you point a camera flat-on into a mirror, you will see yourself, period. So achieving the true POV of the person looking at themselves in a mirror is impossible.

You only have two choices -- one is to use a real reflection of a person with the camera shooting from an off-angle and hope the audience doesn't notice that you aren't dead-on to the glass (perhaps you could build a mirror with a distorted trapezoid shape that cancelled the vanishing perspective of looking at a rectangle at a side angle.)

Or fake the reflection, either live or in post. Live could mean, for example, making the mirror actually be a glass window or blank hole to another mirrored set on the other side of the wall, with the actor standing on the other side pretending to be the reflection. Think of "Duck Soup"...

Coppola did that for the opening and closing shots of "Peggy Sue Got Married" so he could dolly into the glass of the "mirror". He had a foreground double's back (so not a true POV) matching the movements of the person on the other side of the mirror frame facing the camera.

Post would be harder to do on a budget because if the camera is moving into this POV angle, you may be talking about motion control to be able to repeat the move for the b.g. plate you place into the mirror (which would probably be covered with a greenscreen.)

I'd seriously consider the "Peggy Sue Got Married" gag and design a simple shot that moved up to a fake mirror on a wall that was actually a hole into another room dressed as if it were the reflection of the foreground room, with the actor timing themselves to step into view just as the camera steps up to the hole. If it's a bathroom mirror, create a fake reflection of objects right next or against the "mirror" by doubling them on each side of the divide, even going so far as to put mirrored text on bottle labels and whatnot. It could be a very simple "set" to build even on a real location since all you'd see of the foreground room is a bit of wall and fake mirror / frame, with the real room beyond the mirror's frame.

 

[Todd T]

If you search for "no reflection mirror gag" on YouTube you will find a video where they've set up a public washroom with a glass panel between two identical rooms with twin actresses on either side. In the intro to the gag the camera swoops into the room and moves around the room with no apparent reflections.

To get the first person shot you'd have you talent on the other side of the "mirror" and s/he would move in concert with the camera.

 

[Oliver Koeppel]

If you wanna see a god movie with a very good cam in a room full of mirrors try "London" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449061/. They are playing with these reflections in nearly every way. It´s a good one, try it.....

 

[michael zaletel]

Hi David:

Thanks. I like that idea a lot. I'm thinking I could comp it up in Poser since a camera can be invisible (located in character's eyes) in a 3D animation program just to see how it should look if done right.

Any ideas for the street scene with store window? I'm thinking would have to shoot from the glass out for the reflection and then composite the two shots or something but it's going to be really complicated to pull off I think. Would be interesting to see a scene like that captured completely from characters point of view as they shift their focus from different people and things on the sidewalk, in the street and across the street to the store window and things in the store window then to their own reflection in window and back.

Thanks again for your great advice. RedUser is lucky to have you as I know your time and advice is valuable.

-shooter

 

[David Mullen ASC]

The sort of shot you're thinking of in the street has been a bit beyond the post budget for anything I've ever shot, so it's hard to answer your question. A moving POV shot, mapping a window reflection over it in post, etc. with focus shifts, foreground wipes matching their reflections, etc. It can be done given enough time, money, and talented post efx artists working on the shot, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth the time and budget.

 

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

Coppola did that for the opening and closing shots of "Peggy Sue Got Married" so he could dolly into the glass of the "mirror". He had a foreground double's back (so not a true POV) matching the movements of the person on the other side of the mirror frame facing the camera.

James Cameron also did something similiar for T2. There is a deleted/extended scene where Linda Hamilton's twin sister was used to achieve a particular shot. The set was built twice; once where the actors were located in the foreground and on the "reflected" side of the mirror in the background. It was not a POV shot but rather a prosthetics/special effect shot that needed to be reflected in a mirror.

It was very well rehearsed.