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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Whats up with the GAMMA SHIFTING???? color, fcp

Charles Angus said:
FCP doesn't play nice with RGB stuff. Try adjusting the gamma interpretation of your RGB footage in FCP (right click and its in item information or something), but if that doesn't do it for you, don't use RGB in FCP.

FCP+RGB=gamma shifting nightmare
Click to expand...
Yes.
I'm not sure but I think if you export from fcp a timeline with uncompressed files rendered prior in color, the quicktime files that you get outside from fcp have the same gamma of color. It's just as you see the files in fcp but once exported you have the same files with the same gamma of color.
 
Thanks Luca. I'm still confused about the whole gamma thing. I'm seeing a shift in gamma when I send something to color whether it's Redcode Native or Prores. As soon as I'm in color my blacks get lighter. So I can see that there seems to be two different gamma settings or monitor representations between both color and FCP, which is awesome (sarcasm). Which look is in the final output, color or FCP? Also, is there some way to calibrate the two programs, or do I have to work in color with no true black and hope it comes back when I return the sequence to FCP?

thanks
 
SF,

It's normal you see gamma shift when you send footage from FCP to Color because your initial footage (in FCP) was seen with a (let's call it) "temporary Proxy look".

As soon as you're in Color, you read directly in REDCODE.
In Color, then you can choose to look at your footage in several possible gammas and color correct accordingly.

What is not "normal" though is that once you've color corrected in Color, you send to FCP and THEN see a gamma shift.

Antoine
 
BigLu said:
DPX is cool but Gluetools is not in the budget that would take from my pie
Tiff is a nice option but huge files space.
AJA i downloaded but wont work correctly in 10bit
But no doubt DPX is wonderful.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

As I understand and see things you don't need glutools:
1)edit offline from low quality qt out of redcine (or the qt proxy).
2)then use one of the available tools to create xml/edl
3)then conform and render redlog dpx out of redcine
4)then go in the grading (or compositing render out dpx and then grading).
If color is the grading tool then I would, if needed reconform with an edl from fcp and grade, render and output from fcp in aja 10bit RGB codec (with the 32bit float parameters in fcp) and use their application to turn it to dpx if you need.
I have to say I don't know color (neither fcp), and I never thought it could not output images itself! For me that would make a lot of sens so color would be a "standalone" application that you can use for input dpx, grade and render/output in one pass like shake would do.
But if the aja codec is not doing any shift to the color/gamma you are fine.

BTW how do you do for 3D lut when doing film work? What kind of 3d lut format does it use, and which third party software/hardware can create them?

Ah and i don't understand what you mean by "AJA i downloaded but wont work correctly in 10bit"

thanks,
antoine.
 
James W said:
Haha! Nope - not quite - but I'm flattered! Just a heavy user of Color....and Finaltouch before that!
Click to expand...


Man, Bob Sliga was my Color Correction teacher back in College. He brought in a working version of FinalTouch before it launched and blew us all away!

Any one know what he's been up to these days (other than Color)
 
I talk to Bob every couple weeks or so.
He has been busy with Color for sure and seems very happy to play with RED Nativity in color.
Some new changes for Bob this new year it looks like.

Youll have to email him to see whats new.

Bobs bad ass.
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Yep...

Me too.
If i export AJA 10 bit RGB, it looks darker.

...and if i put it back in a FCP Sequence Uncompressed 10 bit and render in high precision YUV, it then go lighter...

Too bad, because AJA 10 bit RGB codec is EXTREMELY clean.

Go figure...

Antoine
Click to expand...

The never ending gamma shifting story....

Did a test yesterday. I have a graded Redlog DPX's project in color. I renderd it with the LUT to Aja 10 bit, apple prores HQ, and then renderd to DPX's and used aja tool DPXtoQT.
So I had 3 QT of the same shot. When whatced in QT the render to AJA was very dark, apple prores was a little too bright and the DPXtoQT was a little bit darker.
I imported them into FCP and played with the settings. The only way I got to see an almost identical image to what I see in Color was with the DPXtoQT and render settings on RGB.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
So... you rendered DPXs out of color, wrapped them and imported to FCP?

G
Click to expand...
It's what I do. Then ensure your fcp sequence settings are 10 bit YUV then render out from final cut to aja 10 bit rgb and transform it to dpx. The dpxs from fcp usually are the same of color if you watch it outside the applications.
 
Luca Immesi said:
It's what I do. Then ensure your fcp sequence settings are 10 bit YUV then render out from final cut to aja 10 bit rgb and transform it to dpx. The dpxs from fcp usually are the same of color if you watch it outside the applications.
Click to expand...

No No No, I rendered dpx's out of color, then I used dpx to qr aja tool to make them aja 10 bit then imported them to FCP and with the render settings to RGB they where qite similar to what I get out of color. I am monitoring through the sdi out of the aja kona 3 to a JVC studio refernce monitor.
 
karilla said:
No No No, I rendered dpx's out of color, then I used dpx to qr aja tool to make them aja 10 bit then imported them to FCP and with the render settings to RGB they where qite similar to what I get out of color. I am monitoring through the sdi out of the aja kona 3 to a JVC studio refernce monitor.
Click to expand...
As all we know in fcp Rgb is 8 bit. YUV is 10 bit.
Look at these two files
First dpx out of color.
Second dpx out of fcp.
http://www.esperimentocinema.com/wp-content/uploads/color_dpx.tiff
http://www.esperimentocinema.com/wp-content/uploads/fcp_dpx.tiff
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Rendering of RGB in FCP is 8 bit, but if you do not render in FCP, FCP doesn't mess up the 10 bit files...
Click to expand...
Yes but if you want to add a transitions for example? (actually I think cross dissolve is the only 10 bit transition).
 
A cross dissolve for DPX can be done in Color…
 
nomad said:
A cross dissolve for DPX can be done in Color…
Click to expand...
Good to know but please don't take me to literally as I said before it's just an example. I mean if you need to come back to fcp to add effects, transitions, modify the editing in the sequence or other stuff I'm just saying it is possible.
 
I'm still not getting any of the workarounds explained here. If i look at a clip rendered out of Color, it looks the same as when I send it to final cut. It looks darker in both cases. I there a standard gamma compensation that I can do in the primary out room so that it will render looking the same as how it looks in Color?

I also notice that I get some weird solarizing when I add extra points to a curve and adjust them. Is this some kind of glitch in color?
 
Do you apply any LUT for viewing in Color which is not present when looking at the files?

You can make any kind of footage solarize if you tweak the curves too far, that's not a glitch but a limitation of available data. How do you look at your picture when you are working in Color?
 
I don't have an LUT set up for color and my monitor. I look at the image on a normal apple lcd. I'm a DP not a post person, so my setup isn't so sweet. I'm not getting solarization from big tweaks or overlapping curves, but just from adding a modification point and moving it ever so slightly. It must be a glitch. I don't have the same issue with curves in any other program.
 
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