DPX with FCP, can it be 10bit RGB?

[Kaku Ito]

Anton Fabi and me are discussing about how we can finish DPX files out of Color on FCP for final editing.

Anton points out that FCP only handle 8-bit RGB. I'm guessing by using GlueTools allows me to work with 10-bit RGB.

Has anyone figured this out?

 

[Luca Immesi]

Anton Fabi and me are discussing about how we can finish DPX files out of Color on FCP for final editing.

Anton points out that FCP only handle 8-bit RGB. I'm guessing by using GlueTools allows me to work with 10-bit RGB.

Has anyone figured this out?

No and I'd like to know.

 

[Kaku Ito]

Hi Luca,

I thought you would know .

I will ask someone from Glue Tools I guess. I'll let you know if I find out something.

 

[Luca Immesi]

This is what they say on glue tools support forum:
http://www.gluetools.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=41&start=0&S=8a7d1fcf5b661d7116e2b945bc44c9db
But what it's not clear if final cut can render out 10 bit rgb dpx.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

AFAIK, FCP renders RGB 8Bit only. YUV is 10Bit. If you want to maintain the full bit-depth don't use FCP for online work. This problem has been around for ages and is not solved yet.

Hans

 

[Joyfool]

The same concern was voiced on fxguide. Apparently Graeme has addressed this concern once before. I hope he can chime in now.

Also if anyone can find the podcast please share it with us!

thx

http://fxguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6188

Quote:
[Originally Posted by euge04
I am working on a RED workflow where we create 10-bit RGB files but I am reading that Final Cut Pro can't render in 10-bit RGB. Does this mean I should render any effects in another program like Shake, Motion or After Effects and import them back into Final Cut Pro for the conform?]

Not true, if you change the settings in the sequence video settings it will work in full resolution above even 10 bit internally. If you are in doubt listen to this week's Red Centre podcast Graeme Natress (Red CTO) and I discuss this very point

Mike
__________________
_______________________
Co-founder fxguide and fxphd
Watch the new fxguidetv !
_______________________

 

[Luca Immesi]

The same concern was voiced on fxguide. Apparently Graeme has addressed this concern once before. I hope he can chime in now.

Also if anyone can find the podcast please share it with us!

thx

http://fxguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6188

Quote:
[Originally Posted by euge04
I am working on a RED workflow where we create 10-bit RGB files but I am reading that Final Cut Pro can't render in 10-bit RGB. Does this mean I should render any effects in another program like Shake, Motion or After Effects and import them back into Final Cut Pro for the conform?]

Not true, if you change the settings in the sequence video settings it will work in full resolution above even 10 bit internally. If you are in doubt listen to this week's Red Centre podcast Graeme Natress (Red CTO) and I discuss this very point

Mike
__________________
_______________________
Co-founder fxguide and fxphd
Watch the new fxguidetv !
_______________________

I think it's this one.
http://www.fxguide.com/modules.php?name=redcentre&pa=listen&path=redcentre-004.mp3

 

[Luca Immesi]

Look at this
http://www.coremelt.com/support/workflow/codec-and-effects-limitations-for-10-bit-online-workflow-with-final-cut-pro-6.0.2.html

 

[Joyfool]

Excellent!

 

[Ido Karilla]

Thanks Luca,
Does it sheed light on the dpx question? Is it a good assmption that from FCP (gluetools) we can not render out 10 bit DPX's.

A related issue that botheres me. when useing a mga LUT (created for color) with gluetools the result on the display is very diffrent. After grading in Color it would be nice to be able to watch the finel result in FCP with sound!!

Any one knows the reason the LUT's are interpruted diffrently?

 

[Luca Immesi]

I updated the workflow, check it out. If we consider true the theory of coremelt we can say aja dpxtoquicktimetraslator is able to make quicktime wrappers able to be rendered in 10 bit YUV.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23606

 

[Ido Karilla]

I updated the workflow, check it out. If we consider true the theory of coremelt we can say aja dpxtoquicktimetraslator is able to make quicktime wrappers able to be rendered in 10 bit YUV.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23606

Thanks again,

Asuming you graded for film out in Color then you are working on log dpx's with a LUT. wraping them with the aja tool will not result in watchable qt's in FCP unless this tool can accept the color LUT's and some how adjust accordingly.

 

[Kaku Ito]

So, instead of setting the rendering at "RGB", I should set it as high quality YUV?
Wouldn't that change the color a bit?

 

[Luca Immesi]

So, instead of setting the rendering at "RGB", I should set it as high quality YUV?
Wouldn't that change the color a bit?

No, if I understand correctly aja 10 bit rgb is just a YUV wrapper that preserve RGB inside.

 

[Kaku Ito]

Hm, then output as AJA 10 bit like you suggested before from Color, then go back to FCP, edit, then out as GlueTools DPX. I gave up on the AJA 10 bit because it shifts the gamma with Multibridge Pro monitor out.

 

[Luca Immesi]

Hm, then output as AJA 10 bit like you suggested before from Color, then go back to FCP, edit, then out as GlueTools DPX. I gave up on the AJA 10 bit because it shifts the gamma with Multibridge Pro monitor out.

Do you mean you have the gamma shift in fcp?

 

[Antoine Fabi]

The problem using the AJA Kona RGB 10bit codec...

Although it's a VERY high quality codec, it's still RGB codec.

So in FCP, you'll see huge gamma and black level lift if you render a AJA 10 bit RGB clip in a High precision YUV timeline render quality...

Too bad, bcause AJA 10 bit RGB looks like 4:4:4 color sampling...

Graeme! Rob!

Help


Antoine

 

[Luca Immesi]

The problem using the AJA Kona RGB 10bit codec...

Although it's a VERY high quality codec, it's still RGB codec.

So in FCP, you'll see huge gamma and black level lift if you render a AJA 10 bit RGB clip in a High precision YUV timeline render quality...

Too bad, bcause AJA 10 bit RGB looks like 4:4:4 color sampling...

Graeme! Rob!

Help


Antoine

If the stuff on coremelt support page is true (and I think it is) aja kona 10 bit rgb in fcp it works as YUV wrapper of rgb values. I'm quite sure the gamma shift is only in fcp (it's only how fcp interpretes the files) but when you export the files from fcp (after they've been color corrected in color) there's no gamma shift. I didn't try but if you want dpx out of fcp, export the timeline on aja 10 bit and use quicktime to dpx traslator to convert it to dpx. I'm waiting a response from aja.

 

[Antoine Fabi]

nope...

Take a AJA 10 bit RGB clip, put it in two FCP sequences with the following settings:

A) render in 8 bit RGB
B) render in High Quality YUV

export both clips...

B setting will always look lighter

Antoine

 

[Luca Immesi]

http://www.esperimentocinema.com/wp-content/uploads/las_vegas_comparison.tiff
left dpx output from color ( dpxtoquicktimetraslator) and right dpx output from fcp (quicktimetodpxtraslator). Although the images are slightly different I think it is a quite acceptable compromise.