Red one & Cold weather -- Anything to be aware of?

[Michael Collier]

I have a red one feature coming up, and wouldn't you know it, production wants to shoot the pic during the coldest months of the year. I need to know what issues have been seen in cold wx and what remedies there are for those so I can pass that off to the 1st AC.

To give you an idea of tempatures expected: Location will be southcentral Alaska, during late jan/feb. We have had a fairly warm winter so far (with lots of snow and a fair amount of fog), but trends for those months won't be apparent until two weeks prior to shoot, and Alaska has a way of snapping to the dark side of the moon quickly in Feb.

Temps last year during a few night shoots I was on was as low as -25. This year for our few nights I expect no lower than -10, but of course as low as -25 is possible. Day ext shoots will probably be as low as 0 to -5.

I have heard about the EVF solarization issue. How pronounced is this? Is there a good blanket/warming solution someone has found? I need quick and dirty. Polar fleace covered with hand warmers?

Are there any issues with the lens mount relative to tempature? I will have my 1st pulling from witness marks for a good portion of the shoot, will the flange focal maintain even in very cold wx?

Are there any good prototypes/tested solutions for standard op. procedure to deal with cold wx? Are there pre-sewn thermal jackets for the camera yet? If not is there a patern anyone has developed that worked for them that I can pass off to a seamstress to make?

The cold is definatley a part of the script, and I want to dive right into the look the director wants, but I am having technical anxiety related to the tempature and I want to mitigate those on set; we have a tight schedule on location. I have had serious technical problems in the past related to cold and they always cost several minutes or hours to fix (ironically the last major problem was a tape drive that froze up and wouldn't eject in the cold. maybe I won't worry about a repeat of that...)

Anyone with experience in this? I know there are some users in the colder climes and I want to hear from you!

 

[Vince K]

Electric blankets, and chemical hand or foot warmers will be a definite asset to you on set.
Condensation build up in the lenses and camera, batts not holding a full charge, and the EVF solarization, are all issues you should be ready for. We, unfortunately, we doing it by trial and error....so that sucked.

But...we shot in -30 and then some with very minor issues....although I'm a 2nd, and it doesn't matter anyway...shit rolls downhill. :/

I would also LOVE to see some specs on how the RED handles in the extreme cold, as I plan on shooting ALOT when I get my cam in Feb...and lets face it...I live in friggin' Winnipeg!!!!! :cold:

 

[Paul Lee]

Keep your lenses cold, but your camera warm. We often leave the lens cases outside, but take RED body inside. With the older builds, the cameras sometimes had trouble starting when they had been in the deep freeze. But once they were running they were totally fine. Also, very important, keep your batteries warm. Put them inside your jacket until using, and then put a hand warmer on them. I would wrap the whole thing with space blankets.

 

[Christian Munoz D]

Michael,

Last week I was shooting in the middle of a snow storm here in Massachusetts. Temperature was -9C = 15 F.

Big issue is EVF solarization, but using a USB powered thermal wrist/mug protector the problem is gone. No problem with batteries, but it is good idea keep them warm.

I was not using FF, so I can’t tell you about issues with the mount, but since the mount is aluminum I believe you may have some problems.

An interesting situation was with the Red 18-50. Somehow the rings were frozen and very hard to move...after keeping the camera for about 15 minutes inside my car the problem was gone.

Best,
Christian

 

[Redrhoads]

I just got done with a feature shooting in Palm Springs/Yucca Valley where it snowed and temps got down to 20 degrees. I too had evf solarization, a bit annoying but still usable for framing, focus would've been a problem if i didn't have a 1st though. Wish I thought of the usb powered warmer! We had no problems with the bricks but the lenses did seems harder to change, or maybe my 1st had frozen fingers!

 

[Kevin Shepit]

Maybe obvious, not sure if you shoot in the cold much but......when coming in from the cold, put your camera, lens and gear in a sealed bag or container (even just a couple garbage bags) for warm up in order to stop condensation.

As far as the cold goes, my Red has performed flawlessly at -25c. Haven't tried any colder yet.....

 

[ALICIA GARCIA]

I recently shot a film in Lake Tahoe, California and noticed many of the aforementioned issues. Some advice to heed in regards to the EVF solarization... simply unplug the lemo cord, making sure the elbow input end is inserted into the body and not the viewfinder, for about 10 seconds and then re-attach. Also, adhering some male-sided velcro to batteries so that hand-warmers can be placed on the back is not a bad idea. As for the aluminium PL mount... just make sure the 1st has steady and warm hands.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

A simple solution for cold conditions; I made a cover from some material thick enough which covers the camera and the LCD/EVF from snow. Since the camera generates quite a lot of heat the cover also keeps the system warm. So, rather than heating the EVF or LCD with additional heaters the simplest solution is to make sure the heat does not escape.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've addressed some cold weather shooting in other threads. But here's some quick info. I've had my RED down to -15F / -26C. At these temps your batteries will freeze, LCD will freeze, RED drives can destroy themselves, EVF can destroy itself and your lenses and mount can drive you insane.

Keep your batteries warm. They will freeze solid at most temps around -15C or 0F.

The LCD display will begin to freeze about the same time as the batteries or even in slightly warmer conditions. First sights of this will be shifts in picture behavior, solarization, sluggish performance or ghosting / blurring, finally there will be black outs or pixel clusters / rows that go black or don't refresh properly. Freezing an LCD panel solid can damage it. So keep the LCD warm.

EVF -- I have not tested it anything colder than about 35F, so can't comment here. I wasn't adventurous enough to fire it up at -9F - -15F conditions.

Lenses... At -15F, I had my Cooke 18-100 zoom, the RED 18-50 and a few zeiss standard T2.1 primes. The zeiss primes tightened up in the cold to the point of being nearly unusable. I chose to not use them because the gear rotation was so stiff, I did not want to risk damage. The Cooke and RED zooms also tightened up, but both were usable, we stuck with the Cooke the whole time because it still maintained it's smooth mechanical nature, just stiffer. Focus marks were way off, measured focus was not possible based on the distance markings on the lens. But with the contraction of the mount and the lenses themselves, this isn't exactly surprising. We did not see a point in adjusting back focus via the lens mount at these temperatures as it was obvious the lenses were off too. Backfocus and lens marks all returned to normal after the camera was at room temps the following day.

The camera itself generates a lot of heat, as Lauri points out. In the cold, I was covering my whole kit with a heavy plastic bag to help trap some of this heat. Condensation can be a concern, but the air was so dry, I wasn't too concerned. I was tying a hot pack to the back of the LCD and I kept batteries on the belt clip, running to a thermal bag keeping all my batteries warm. If I needed to go handheld, I would hang the battery off my inside coat pocket and zip back up.

When allowing lenses to cool or warm back up, beware of condensation.

Be very careful of carbon fiber or carbon X rods i the cold. Carbon fiber can become very brittle at sub-freezing temperatures. Any clamps or bolts that were tightened down in the cold should be loosened before returning the camera to warm environments! Further expansion with temperature changes can cause physical damage to accessories. I also recommend not tightening anything down until the gear is acclimated to the cold. Be aware that plastic components especially, but also aluminum or metal pieces, especially cast pieces, that are designed to flex are at higher risk of breaking in severe cold. Any rod clamps that were tightened at room temperature can become loose with an 80 degree temperature change.

Do not acclimate a camera to severe cold with a lens mounted. Do not acclimate a camera to indoor temperatures from sub freezing temps with a lens mounted. If you are shooting EFP / ENG style and will be moving between outdoor and indoor environments, I recommend configuring the camera in a garage or vehicle that may provide some middle ground in terms of temperature, if possible. Otherwise it's a judgement call between indoor / outdoor and trying to decide where the camera will spend more time and what effects. I would probably go for setting up and powering up indoors and keeping the camera system warm, just hope for the best in terms of condensation on lens elements when changing environments.

 

[Thor Wixom]

Great advice, Jeff.

Gaffer tape and hand warmers are great for LCD, VF, even batteries and drives.

I had no problems shooting to 5 degrees Farenheit without the extra precautions. I was also in and out of warm places. This was at the Sundance Film Festival last year.

If you're shooting for extended times in such cold conditions, all the suggestions Jeff made are excellent.

-Thor

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

More things about cold...

Hard drives, as in the RED Drive, are not designed to operate in sub-freezing temperatures and should not be powered-on if they are frozen.

Many tapes like gaff tape, duct tape, some types of electrical tape, etc.. Do not adhere properly in severe cold.

Wind chill... Be aware of winds and humidity and how wind chill can affect you and your gear. Wind chill is more than just how cold it can feel due to air moving over your body. It can have a real cooling effect or can rapidly accelerate any cooling or freezing process.

And finally, outdoor knowledge and experience. Do not venture off into the mountains or high altitude regions, especially in the cold, without someone who knows what they are doing. IMO, basic wilderness survival kit and skills are mandatory for any crew shooting in the wild. There's a big difference between shooting in a parking lot with temps of -15 and shooting in the mountains after a 3 mile trek from your parked vehicles at the same temperatures. Be aware of natural hazards... If you're in the mountains, especially venturing into avalanche territory, have someone with you that knows WTF they are doing. I know I'm veering more OT with some of this info, but there are many outdoor adventurers who lose their lives in snowslides / avalanches every year. Over 20 in Colorado alone last year, and not all of them skiers / snowboarders.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Tips to manage in cold

Tips to manage in cold

Shot last week in very cold conditions all the way down to -27C. The camera worked just fine. Here are some tips:

1) To avoid condensation keep/switch the camera on when you bring it indoors. The heat generated by the camera quickly removes all humidity condensated on the camera.

2) A simple cover is enough to keep the camera warm. No need to cover the fan.

3) The LCD generates also some heat and it works just fine in cold. When I carried the camera on my shoulder did get some small snow flakes on the LCD. However, the heat generated by the LCD quickly evaporated the snow/water although it was very cold.

4) When I was in hide and had the front of the camera in cold (around -20C) and the back of the camera in warm (around +10-15C) the collimation did change. Not able to say whether this was due to the rubber pads of the Nikon mount, due to the Nikon mount, or due to the front part itself. When the camera was completely in cold, did not discover such a change.

And, this is how the cold looks like, in case you've not ever seen it:

 

[chuck colburn]

Use to change out the lens and camera lubricants for people who were doing extended cold weather shoots. It's really no big deal. On zooms and some primes you more or less have to because you can't just take the lenses from a warm place to a cold place or condensation will happen which is not a good thing at all because the condensation does not just vanish if the lens warms up again to quickly. That can get you a big repair bill from a rental house.

 

[Derek Van Gorder]

I'm in the middle of a student production in NY, where we've been shooting in an unheated concrete tower. EVF showed solarization for the first whole day, however for the next three days after that there was no problem, even though the set remained just as cold. Seemed like it acclimated itself.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Nice thread. Please post more exterior shots from the camera! I would really appreciate some mid-day shots of skin tones in the snow!!

I can't wait to see snow again... I miss it so bad when I see it.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

In the past I have used a portable cooler with a couple of hand warmers in it to store batteries and small monitors. It would probably be good to put the red drive and viewfinder in it as well.

p

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Does anyone have any mid day grabs on the snow shot on red?

 

[Christian Munoz D]

Does anyone have any mid day grabs on the snow shot on red?

Roberto,
Tomorrow back at the studio I will post a couple of mid day pics shot on Red...on the snow.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Excellent! Would you happen to have some from Bariloche?

 

[Christian Munoz D]

Excellent! Would you happen to have some from Bariloche?

Unfortunately I don't have shots from Bariloche, maybe next South American winter.

These pics are from my backyard here in Massachusetts.