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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

PL Cine Glass for Stills Photography?

As Pawel said, the original intent of the thread was to discuss cine lenses on a FF35 Scarlet or Epic for stills or timelapse. So I will look forward to hearing about the possibilities of a 14mm Master Prime on a FF body. It will depend on how much of the sensor it covers to determine if any advantage is gained over still glass like the forthcoming 24 f/1.4 L II.
 
The biggest revolution for still photography -using cine glass with Pl mount- will be the anamorphic lenses!!!
Marc
 
I did look at the possibility of having an adapter made for PL glass on my Leica's.
It's certainly possible on an M series camera,although you would have to focus by scale,(not a problem as MP's are so accurate) it's expensive though.
Not possible with a reflex,without major surgery to the camera body.
I did once come across somebody who was offering Olympus 1/2 frame cameras with a PL mount,can't find the link now.
Certainly be interesting when Scarlet and Epic FF35 arrive,that'll add a bit of spice to the eternal lens debate,no doubt the usual suspects will still be arguing,sorry discussing.
Tom.
 
ibloom said:
Lol!!!!! You win Stephen. This is the best post ever.
IBloom
Click to expand...

Hi Ian,

The Samaritans were engaged at the time when when I made that post

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Ian,

The Samaritans were engaged at the time when when I made that post

Stephen
Click to expand...

Stephen is never giving up, the same as me :) .

I'm shooting with T1.1 lens.

I shot with R1 using Leica-M 50mm Noctilux f/1.0 (Canada) and f/0.95 ASPH (Germany).

f/1 should be something like T1.1 that is much faster than T1.3 compared with any MP.

I only know that Panavision has one spherical lens Super Speed MKII 55mm T1.1 Close focus to 2'6".

Also have a look at the TEST footage shot on R1 with Noctilux f/1.0 at night in Vienna>>>

All shot wide open at T1.1 and sometimes is too much light.

R1 Mysterium is "light hungry" sensor, so guys BRING IT ON (the fastest lens).

Get faster glass as possible even using still photo lenses.

The footage output done at RA, ASA 320, shutter 1/48, K tungsten, no any CC.

Also I will remake WB in RA and make the lens flare much better looking at this footage soon.

Better compression too.
 
Stephen Williams said:
A colleague once likened me to the beggar in the Meaning of Life, "penny for the blind".
Click to expand...

Great :clown2: .

Btw. I'm re-rendering the footage right now.

New link is coming up.

Stay tuned.
 
OK, guys.

I made an appointment with Arri for 16th of December to play with the projector and MTF machine. They only have PL mount available, so I can't project still camera lenses. But I will certainly project a few Master Primes and measure size of usable (sharp) image circles for various focal lengths. We will also test some longer rehoused still lenses: Canon 150-600mm, Nikon 400mm and Nikon 500mm for their sharpness and overall performance.

Anything elese you would like me to check?

Many thanks to Stefan and Rey of Arri Australia for their generous invitation.
 
I checked out pawels master primes out wed night..

There is no debate those lenses blow everything out of the water even on the dell monitor we were viewing on. They are the most magnificent pieces of equipment i have ever seen...

I am extremely jealous because i only have nikons but i know better when i see it... Not just the corners which are just sharp everywhere you look wide open but also
absolutely every aspect of the lens from how the noise looks better to bokeh etc etc...

They are no doubt amazing lenses.... That little picture last page of some ancient film lens that is not what we are talking about. The master primes are amazing...

Anyone who has not seen one... First have a look before you speak and anyone that has... well, you know what i mean...

Before wed i was deluded from what i read too but no more...
 
Hi Pawel,

It would be nice to know the Image Circle of as many lenses as possible.
I would be curious what it measures for the Hawk anamorphic lenses, so that we know what to expect once we'll put them on the FF35.

Emmanuel
 
Panavision has quite a few 50mm T1.0 lenses (the f-stop is less than 1.0 on these lenses as far as I know).
 
Image circle and mtf lens test at arri

Image circle and mtf lens test at arri

OK, guys: I just came back from Arri where we projected and measured several lenses. They were my Red 300mm, MP75, MP35 and MP14 and here is what we saw:

Red 300mm

On the projector, the lens is shap corner to corner and 80 lp/mm was just visible at f/2.8. There was no visible CA at all. Image circle is about 48mm, hinting at FF35 origins of this lens.

On the MTF machine we got around 26% MTF at the centre for 50 lp/mm (*) fully opened (f/2.8). The MTF peeks at about 30% around f/4 mark. There is some small flare off centre, but nothing too dramatic.

This lens should just about cover FF35mm. It is a very sharp lens rendering uniform and distortion free image.

Zeiss Master Prime 75mm

On the projector, this lens is extremely sharp corner to corner. 100 lp/mm is visible at f/1.2 ! The image circle covers just over 37mm diameter.

On the MTF machine the lens reads MTF 37% at f/1.2 and peeks at MTF 66%just below f/5 for 50 lp/mm (very fine detail).

Zeiss Master Prime 35mm

On the projector, this lens is ridiculously sharp corner to corner and 100 lp/mm is visible at f/1.2. The image circle covers just 31mm diameter. At the very edge of the 31mm diameter circle there is tiny amount of CA, but it disappears entitely on the 30mm diameter (15mm from centre).

On the MTF machine the lens scores remarkable 42% MTF fully opened (f/1.2)and peeks at stellar 72% just above T4. Remember, we are talking about extremely fine detail here at 50 lp/mm.

Zeiss Master Prime 14mm

Now, this one defies physics. We did the measurements twice because we did not believe our eyes.

On the projector we set the lens just 0.6m from the screen to fill it. The image circle is around 31.1mm diameter. There is no CA, not even in the corners! At f/1.2 the lens resolved 120 lp/mm quite clearly. No, not just in the centre, IN THE CORNERS!

On the MTF machine the lens resolved 50 lp/mm with remarkable 43 % MTF, which quicky jumps up and peeks at MTF 74% just above T4 before diffraction steps in.

Conclusions
Longer lenses are likely to cover more than S35 real estate, normal and wide don't. The Red 300mm is a very sharp lens, with no visible CA and just a tiny bit of flare.
Master Primes are in a league of their own. If you think there is a still lens that can outperform them, think again. They perform substantially better at f/1.2 than any still lens at f/5.6. Master Primes peek their resolving power at just above f/4, after which they become diffraction limited.

There is no doubt in my mind that, compared to the best still picture lenses, Master Primes are still significantly sharper. And, they achieve this performance at f/1.2 and even at 14mm. To me, those properties make them very desirable for stills and time lapse.

I would like to thank Ray and Stefan from Arri Australia for inviting me again to their toy shop.

(*) Most lens manufacturers give MTF figures for 10 lp/mm and 30 lp/mm. Those figures are not directly comparable with the measurements made here at a frequency of 50 lp/mm. Besides, most MTF figures published are not at f/1.2 either.
 
Pawel, thanks for this test. Those are some impressive results. I am amazed by the performance of that 14mm. And your test of the 300mm Red lens seems consistent with what others have said.
 
Thanks Pawel. Now I just have to make the big bucks like you so I can get a 14mm Master Prime of my own!! :)

Is it possible to test lenses like the Nikon 14-24G or Canon 35mmL on a projector like that?
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Red 300mm

On the projector, the lens is shap corner to corner and 80 lp/mm was just visible at f/2.8. There was no visible CA at all. Image circle is about 48mm, hinting at FF35 origins of this lens.
Click to expand...

Excellent. Now please make the rest of the Red primes cover FF35 as well, so I won't have to think about other PL glass.
 
Pawel.

thanks for the tests.

Hope that "your excellent" test results justified investment in 3 MPs.

What I'm missing here are more facts like a sort of lp/mm graphs or any other

documentary photos from the instruments you were getting results.

But never mind because that's how I would like to do it but I'm not doing it at all :) .

For the illustration at the link further is one comparative test about high resolution

with several lenses done from the professional lens expert Erwin Putz.
 
Tom said:
Thanks Pawel. Now I just have to make the big bucks like you so I can get a 14mm Master Prime of my own!! :)

Is it possible to test lenses like the Nikon 14-24G or Canon 35mmL on a projector like that?
Click to expand...

Small correction, Tom, I am good at spending big bucks, not making them :w00t:

Arri Australia does not have Nikon or Canon mount on their projector. I tried to guess-timate mathematically as to what comparative performance the 14-24 G could have and it looks that it is still some way off the MPs in the off axis performance. From various MTF charts that I have seen, it looks like the 14-24 (whilst superb and significantly better than just about any other wide angle lens) still does not have the flatness of field that MPs have and MTF drops as you move away from the centre. The biggest drawback, however, is not the inferior sharpness, it is ability to get the best sharpness due to focusing difficulty. If you played on a lens projector, you would know what I mean. A cine lens you can focus using scales and it is spot on. And you need loooong scales to nail the 100 lp/mm marker. Focusing by eye is almost impossible at this level of detail.

In relation to light gathering capability for night time shooting, the 14-24 would need to cover 2.4 times more sensor area at f/2.8 and the EF 24mm f/1.4 II would need to cover 50% more area to collect equivalent amount of light as MP. This means they would need to cover sharp 50mm and 38mm image circles respectively to be equal in this respect. So, the Canon 24mm has some hopes for this application. It will be good to see its off-axis performance and flare when it becomes available.
 
Pawel, do you have any thoughts on the Contax N Zeiss 17-35? It's corners seem to be sharper than a razor, but maybe at the expense of the center of the image. One of the members here whose opinion I respect has one converted to EOS mount and swears by it. One thing I am interested in is finding a wide lens that can shoot straight into the moon (moon in frame) without much flaring.

Here is a shot from last week with a naked EF-S 10-22 on my 350D body shooting directly into the moon. Usually this lens is awesome at avoiding too much flare. But look in the lower left corner, as well as near the moon itself...

2lng0fd.jpg


:help:
 
From just looking at the MTF charts, the Contax doesn't seem to be in the same league as the Nikon 14-24mm or Canon L primes.

Regarding flaring, it is tough. As you say, it is a very nice shot you have there, if not for the flare. I am getting flare in about 50% of shots and loss of contrast is often very significant.

I sold the 10-22 mainly because of that, although I did manage to do some sunrises and sunsets with it without flare, it was pain the arse. The 17-40 L was even worse and reliably produced strong, green flare. With MPs, you just don't think about flare - there isn't any.

I look forward to the new Canon 24mm f/1.4 II. For me, it is the only still lens that has the potential to please for this type of work. Manual focusing at night is one issue other than optical performance that may be problematic.
 
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