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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

red one good investment at this point for rentals....

A

aftabulis

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Now that there is no wait to buy a Red One and of course my ticket came up a month before they became readily available LOL, do you think there is still investment grade worthy justification in buying one to rent privately or should one just wait for a scarlet?

Also when do you think the scarlet will actually become available?
 
by the way Im in south Florida close to the Miami rental scene
 
There are no rental premiums for the most part anymore. If I was buying a Red One right now it would be for the following reasons:

1. You're an accomplished DP with an established client base.
2. You're an indie filmmaker wanting to step up the quality of your productions.
3. You're an established rental company with clients.
4. You are confident you can rent it out but you're not looking to get rich off it.

The camera is great. My only advice is to buy one for the right reasons. Otherwise, you may want to consider Scarlet.

Hope this helps.
 
Second exactly what steve said.

Perhaps "indie filmmaker looking to step up your quality and you have distribution plans." Also, perhaps you're confident you can rent it out, at a reasonable rate (aka not by low-balling) and are interested in staying in the rental market for over a year. Always keep in mind the camera requires another $8-$30k over what you pay RED to really run properly.

RYan
 
I'd add, if you are a good communicator and have knowledge to that list... There's a lot of untapped work on the lower end. There's a lot of people who are unable to tackle effectivly the "noise" that has resulted from the red release (whoever the culprits are). People that can stand up to a client because, hell, you are saving him a lot of money and giving him an excellent product! People who can show rather than dribble techno babble that just ends up scaring and confusing. Of course there's heaps of money to be made but i would say you would need excellent communication and marketing skills and maybe carve a niche that seperates you from the heard.
 
I'm in Los Angeles. About two months ago our rentals started to slowly dry up (people renting the camera from productions that I was not a part of). Lately the camera only goes out when I'm hired as a DP and then I usually have to give a bit of a deal on the camera.

An example of how things are going for me: I bid on a RED package rental job the other day. We hadn't had a rental for awhile so we decided to discount heavily to ensure getting the job. At this point I'm figuring a low rental is better then NO rental (especially after a couple months). To our surprise the producer got back to us and explained that she had gotten the same package from a camera house for HALF!!!! of what we quoted. As I said before we were discounting HUGELY... so my initial reaction was that she was either not telling the truth or just trying to get us even lower.
I later learned that her quote was real... and it came from a big Los Angeles rental house. So if that's not a sign of the times (at least in the Los Angeles RED camera rental scene) then I don't know what is.

I'm sure other people have different experiences.... but I'm hearing more and more RED camera owner/ops and small rental houses voice the same thing.
 
How much was your quote and what was theirs?



DogDay.
 
Hi,

Big rental houses usually list equipment at 1-2% of cost and often discount 50%. A body + EVF for $100 a day is therefore plausible, remember a rental company has lots of fully amortized lenses, matte boxes, tripods & follow focus units & lighting equipment.

The rental business has always been tough, I remember being laughed at a year ago when I mentioned it.

Stephen

Edit, with 4000+ cameras delivered, supply probably exceeds demand so expect rental income to fall further.

doondoon said:
I'm in Los Angeles. About two months ago our rentals started to slowly dry up (people renting the camera from productions that I was not a part of). Lately the camera only goes out when I'm hired as a DP and then I usually have to give a bit of a deal on the camera.

An example of how things are going for me: I bid on a RED package rental job the other day. We hadn't had a rental for awhile so we decided to discount heavily to ensure getting the job. At this point I'm figuring a low rental is better then NO rental (especially after a couple months). To our surprise the producer got back to us and explained that she had gotten the same package from a camera house for HALF!!!! of what we quoted. As I said before we were discounting HUGELY... so my initial reaction was that she was either not telling the truth or just trying to get us even lower.
I later learned that her quote was real... and it came from a big Los Angeles rental house. So if that's not a sign of the times (at least in the Los Angeles RED camera rental scene) then I don't know what is.

I'm sure other people have different experiences.... but I'm hearing more and more RED camera owner/ops and small rental houses voice the same thing.
Click to expand...
 
aftabulis said:
Now that there is no wait to buy a Red One and of course my ticket came up a month before they became readily available LOL, do you think there is still investment grade worthy justification in buying one to rent privately or should one just wait for a scarlet?

Also when do you think the scarlet will actually become available?
Click to expand...

In answer to your question... No... the rental market is dead. As you've heard from others here... established rental houses are heavily discounting their packages.... HEAVILY!!! These are multi-million dollar asset rental houses... its happening everywhere. If you have a collection of cine lenses (master primes or angenieux) perhaps you can make some money off those.
 
doondoon said:
To our surprise the producer got back to us and explained that she had gotten the same package from a camera house for HALF!!!! of what we quoted. As I said before we were discounting HUGELY... so my initial reaction was that she was either not telling the truth or just trying to get us even lower.
Click to expand...

I had this happen to me as well, a figure so low for a package that had an 18-85 that I was dumbfounded.

I understand that people need to see some return on their investment (I'm in the same boat, and I'm not so proud as to not make deals for people), but when entire $60K packages are going out for token money ($200, $300, $400), that's nuts.

Some of us saw this coming, but were hoping we were going to be wrong...
 
stevesherrick said:
There are no rental premiums for the most part anymore. If I was buying a Red One right now it would be for the following reasons:

1. You're an accomplished DP with an established client base.
2. You're an indie filmmaker wanting to step up the quality of your productions.
3. You're an established rental company with clients.
4. You are confident you can rent it out but you're not looking to get rich off it.

QUOTE]


Well said. Having a rental here or there is just some additional change. I would never own it just for the sake of rental.
Click to expand...
 
100$ for body + EVF??? it is crazy!!! I take 100$ for my HVX200 here in Poland
I paid over 50k for Red One + accessories and for HVX200 5k
 
I have an HVX200 as well and never even considered renting that out, is there ay market down here in Fl. if anyone local is responding?

And great advice all around especially about having good communication skills and not scaring the client with technobabble, that is one of my strong suits, I love to relate things to people.

So you were saying that rental houses are renting the RED for $100 a day are you kidding? Whats the fair market value daily for just the body if people even rent just the body and then again for the body a lens and the basic package they sell I forget what its called I think the production pack..?
 
I'm here in South Florida with a RED... 60k package... not getting anything worthwhile. Figuring I either need more equipment for rentals or look into post. Think I would get more jobs if i had a pro lens kit (master primes/angenieux specifically). Not really looking solely at rentals though. The rental company that is even doing it sometimes for FREE/deferred got way... way more equipment than us. If you are looking at getting 1300 dollars a day... you are fooling yourself. Basically don't start a business model around a camera body... especially one that takes forever to arrive with parts. The new redusers have it a whole lot easier than the earlier serial number holders. Heck you guys get a camera with i/pin and new audio boards immediately. We've been waiting months and will have to wait months more. Not to mention waiting forever for the red primes, the previous evf back log, the red drive backlog, etc.
 
Yet a few people made a killing (and continue to do so) with red... (not me but i am extremely happy with the value i get)
 
I just did a shoot in Miami, FL and there are at least a couple very affordable rental houses that provide REDs with Pro-CINE lenses. In general as a DP, I prefer using rental houses because they have lenses etc. and are more reliable.

Same thing in NYC. I thought about buying a RED, but the reality is that a full RED package with SuperSpeeds, Support, etc. are going for sub $1k prices.

Matt
 
on average how much would I expect to pay for a decent master primes/angenieux lens that would be good enough to make this a pro cine camera worth using for serious projects?
 
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