How will Scarlet stack up feature-wise to competitors at the same price point?

[brainburst]

I kinda think it's going to be different.

A. The Japanese giant won't response quickly.

You don't understand the Japanese Giants. You assume that they aren't already capable of producing this technology. It's not that they are not capable, they have just been unwilling to sacrifice sales of their higher end products. It's about marketing not technology!

B. After Scarlet are in the hands of the end user - it will be another year (at least) for the semi-pro to catch up.

I give it less than 6 months. They know all about Red. They are just milking their existing product lines for as long as they can.

C. At the end of the day - many many things about marketing - yes word of mouth is great. But look at the budget the other Japanese giant spending on marketing?

The big Japanese consumer company / pro-summer (is there such thing honestly) won't cut price because of this "small" threat. In fact, they can get away with it for years to come. They will keep on giving you skip line / 720p called HD for 6K in pounds! Because they can.

It's not a small threat. The 2/3" is set to be produced in volume. The SemiPro /Pro world has a limited number of consumers compared to the consumer world. The Old line companies will react much more quickly than you can imagine. Trust me, the products are already in the pipeline. They just need to figure out how to monetize them. Most likely with yet more kinds of proprietary media cards.

 

[ETCFILMS]

Well I worked for one (the name start with P end with R ) in Hong Kong / China / Tokyo .... so I am not sure whether I know or not.

of course they have the tech, did any one read the book by (sorry forgot the name at the moment) David Lynch DOP. He went to Tokyo years ago to meet up with Sony's people - and they show him the DV camera prototype. That was another 10 years before DV cameras become common things.

I still remember the day I received the first DVD player (not prototype) that was 1994.

As you already said - they will milk as much out of the current product line as possible and I will say that is 3 years down the road.

As much as RED want to do volume production. In reality it's very different. P******R made 100 million U.S. dollars revenue from the AV division in 92 ... that's volume.

Then again we are all just speculate here. Not that I really care whether they drop the price or not.

WHAT I LOOKING FORWARD TO IS THE DAY I RECEIVED MY SCARLET

 

[REDneck]

I kinda think it's going to be different.

A. The Japanese giant won't response quickly.

B. After Scarlet are in the hands of the end user - it will be another year (at least) for the semi-pro to catch up.

C. At the end of the day - many many things about marketing - yes word of mouth is great. But look at the budget the other Japanese giant spending on marketing?

For the moment, RED / Scarlet / Epic this name are probably well known among the "geeks" but not to the wider world yet. It will take a few more years before the soccer mom will take notice also don't forget the post production is another issue. Those sm/d they don't care about 90% of things we talk about here - in fact they don't have a clue what we are talking about at all. They want to shoot then watch / or put it on a DVD and send to the soccer grand dad ....

The big Japanese consumer company / pro-summer (is there such thing honestly) won't cut price because of this "small" threat. In fact, they can get away with it for years to come. They will keep on giving you skip line / 720p called HD for 6K in pounds! Because they can.

On the other hand, who really will have to face up to the challenge is the REAL Pro camera companies - because it's niche. Including the Japanese giant's pro production division. This will be the area where we will see some interesting things to happen.

i think you're on the money

 

[brainburst]

As much as RED want to do volume production. In reality it's very different. P******R made 100 million U.S. dollars revenue from the AV division in 92 ... that's volume.

The company you were in was very much a consumer electronics company. They made money on volume. The industrial divisions of Sony Panasonic JVC make more money but move far fewer units. So the Scarlet is a much bigger threat to them even in smaller volume sales. They will have to respond. Even if it comes at an upfront cost in profits. They'll have a comparable unit at around the same price point. The only difference is that their files will be immediately editable (no debayering & from their perspective only the hardcore will care about Raw) and the media will be proprietary.

 

[Zach Nelson]

What's P******R ?

 

[proaudio4]

The quality of Red's CMOS designs have nothing to do with it, these artefacts are caused by the nature of a rolling-shutter's exposure.

Actually, RED's new sensor HAS improved on the CMOS refresh rate. They are faster, therefore have less skew.
Everyone is right about this subject being beat to death.

 

[Michael Schmitt]

Actually, RED's new sensor HAS improved on the CMOS refresh rate. They are faster, therefore have less skew.
Everyone is right about this subject being beat to death.

Yes, beaten to death. We won't know it it's going to be an issue until the camera is released.

The boys in the brainstorm room know about it, so let's wait and see how they solve the problem.

 

[Mark K.]

Actually, RED's new sensor HAS improved on the CMOS refresh rate. They are faster, therefore have less skew.
Everyone is right about this subject being beat to death.

Yes, beaten to death. We won't know it it's going to be an issue until the camera is released.

The boys in the brainstorm room know about it, so let's wait and see how they solve the problem.

Guys, you're missing the entire point of my post. Rolling-shutter artefacts are a result of the way a rolling-shutter exposes the frame. You can improve the speed of that exposure, but that doesn't change the nature of the exposure.

 

[Michael Schmitt]

Guys, you're missing the entire point of my post. Rolling-shutter artefacts are a result of the way a rolling-shutter exposes the frame. You can improve the speed of that exposure, but that doesn't change the nature of the exposure.

I understand your post. I am very concerned about rolling-shutter... It may turn out to be a deal breaker.
I can't let me self worry about it. Won't be buying the camera for a year. I have confidence that the Red team will find a solution.
By the way, watched some footage on "Angels and Demons" that was shot with a Red One and didn't see any shutter at all. Think there may be a workaround?
I am going to drop the subject now... I'm getting sucked into it again. If you have more information about the rolling shutter, PM it to me. Okay? It's not fair to the people who are tired of it.
I still want more information, so if you've got it, send it my way. I need more data.

 

[Daniel Kennedy]

Thanks for all the info regarding what features Red currently offers on there camera and what is likely to be on the Scarlet (particularly lens sizes).
As for the Scarlet and the HPX170 and EX3 being apples and oranges, well that might be the case image-wise and will be extremely happy if it is. To me you have to see it as a competitor for the same market because of its size and its price. Those are 2 major considerations for me and what I like to shoot. I was pretty excited about the EX1 and EX3 when they came out but the rolling shutter issues turned me off. The HPX170 looks like a good choice for me but it is lacking the sharp image of the EX cameras. Given the choice I would choose a somewhat softer image. But now there is the Scarlet. I am hoping it to be the best of both worlds.
The rolling shutter as I understand it can be overcome by faster CMOS sensor. In theory I would think that once it can scan faster than the frame rate being recorded that you shouldn't see any skew effects. Whether or not that will be the case remains to be seen.
Thanks for all the info.

 

[REDneck]

this has been covered extensively ... film cameras use a rolling shutter. The difference between a film camera and the CMOS chip on an EX 1 is the speed. According to Jim, the mysterium X will have a similar speed/look to a film shutter. I'd link you to his post but I won't.

 

[ETCFILMS]

What's P******R ?

P**N*ER

Fill out the blanks The company is very different now a day (I worked for them between 1990 - 1994) Well I can tell you what I did for them

I sell Karaoke machines

 

[ETCFILMS]

The company you were in was very much a consumer electronics company. They made money on volume. The industrial divisions of Sony Panasonic JVC make more money but move far fewer units. So the Scarlet is a much bigger threat to them even in smaller volume sales. They will have to respond. Even if it comes at an upfront cost in profits. They'll have a comparable unit at around the same price point. The only difference is that their files will be immediately editable (no debayering & from their perspective only the hardcore will care about Raw) and the media will be proprietary.

On the other hand, who really will have to face up to the challenge is the REAL Pro camera companies - because it's niche. Including the Japanese giant's pro production division. This will be the area where we will see some interesting things to happen.

I already state that The interesting thing will be the recording media (I am with you on this one) So the DV world is looking at a change like the day when VHS ==> DVD (DVD recording never really took off - I think)
At the moment, if we break it down.

Sony introduce new codec via the EX line.
Panasonic been doing this with their HD-Pro
Canon introduce (I think its pain in your backside) via the HG-10

Where is JVC at at the moment?

2009-2010 will be very interesting time to see how the market change.

P.S. I am so looking forward to the BlueRay writer coming down in price. So I can put my DV tape to BlueRay (I think I shoot 50 DV tapes alone this year ...)