2/3 Scarlet Package

[Aiden Cornwell]

Something I would like to see is some different packages (with a small savings) put together for those going for the brain option.

Especially the $2500 version.

A production package that would get me started for under $4000 including the brain

- lens mount/option for it to come with 1 lens mount of customers choosing
-EVF or LCD screen
-battery
-way to charge battery
-grip or handles (one option of choosing within reason)
-power adapter
-way to get the CF card data onto the pc either direct from camera or through cf card reader

 

[Austin Glass]

I also think there should be a package available, but I think that under 4k might be asking a lot. Obviously the modules pricing at this point is all speculation, but maybe a (small) package between $5-6k is a little bit more reasonable. I noticed you didn't include a lens in your package, so that price point may be a little more reasonable.

As much as we would all love to pay $4k, I think it's important to keep in mind what we're getting. My mom always had used the mantra "you get what you pay for," and that applies to both high quality products and the cheap ones. Scarlet (and Epic) is offering nearly unheard-of quality that is within grasp to those of us with smaller budgets, and that is awesome. I guess my first instinct is to not expect RED to be offering all of these modules at really low prices, considering their (expected) quality.

High quality costs money, and I think the brains' price points are spoiling us in that regard. Besides, I'd rather save up and plan on spending more on the modules, so in the off-chance things are cheaper, I'll be happier because I can either spend less or buy more modules.

 

[Aiden Cornwell]

I also think there should be a package available, but I think that under 4k might be asking a lot. Obviously the modules pricing at this point is all speculation, but maybe a (small) package between $5-6k is a little bit more reasonable. I noticed you didn't include a lens in your package, so that price point may be a little more reasonable.

As much as we would all love to pay $4k, I think it's important to keep in mind what we're getting. My mom always had used the mantra "you get what you pay for," and that applies to both high quality products and the cheap ones. Scarlet (and Epic) is offering nearly unheard-of quality that is within grasp to those of us with smaller budgets, and that is awesome. I guess my first instinct is to not expect RED to be offering all of these modules at really low prices, considering their (expected) quality.

High quality costs money, and I think the brains' price points are spoiling us in that regard. Besides, I'd rather save up and plan on spending more on the modules, so in the off-chance things are cheaper, I'll be happier because I can either spend less or buy more modules.

They are doing lens plus battery for 3k (aprox) for the fixed Scarlet. I just said replace the lens with a lens mount (Nikon, Cannon, or $500 credit to the more expensive ones)

I based most of my suggestions on what comes with a stills dslr are what they are shooting for with the fixed lens scarlet

 

[Austin Glass]

That's a good point.

If you also consider that the Fixed Scarlet package that they are planning to offer is $3750 for "power, finder and media module" then it kind of gives you an idea of what to expect for a little bit nicer of a package. The difference between this package and just the 2/3" brain is $1250. That package is not much smaller than the one you detailed, with maybe the biggest difference being the grips and the option of lens mount. When I look at it this way, then I can see your estimated price point being more realistic.

 

[Aiden Cornwell]

That's a good point.

If you also consider that the Fixed Scarlet package that they are planning to offer is $3750 for "power, finder and media module" then it kind of gives you an idea of what to expect for a little bit nicer of a package. The difference between this package and just the 2/3" brain is $1250. That package is not much smaller than the one you detailed, with maybe the biggest difference being the grips and the option of lens mount. When I look at it this way, then I can see your estimated price point being more realistic.

Now part of it depends on what the mini primes come in at. I have no idea what red wil put them in at. They are really fast lenses and I would love to have them.

 

[Paul Brand]

Something I would like to see is some different packages (with a small savings) put together for those going for the brain option.

Especially the $2500 version.

A production package that would get me started for under $4000 including the brain

- lens mount/option for it to come with 1 lens mount of customers choosing
-EVF or LCD screen
-battery
-way to charge battery
-grip or handles (one option of choosing within reason)
-power adapter
-way to get the CF card data onto the pc either direct from camera or through cf card reader

I like the "production package" for the 2/3" Scarlet concept, too.

Perhaps:
- brain w/ one mount and REDmote
- LCD screen or EVF
- battery (w/either module or handle)
- AC power adapter/charger
- CF recorder w/dual slots
- IO module

(perhaps some module could incorporate a 4pin 12v XLR to utilize existing industry standard power gear)

Other rigging options (rods, shoulder pad, etc.) could be also grouped as packages.

Obviously prices will emerge as we get closer to production.

paul

 

[Jim Klatt]

- lens mount/option for it to come with 1 lens mount of customers choosing
-EVF or LCD screen
-battery
-way to charge battery
-grip or handles (one option of choosing within reason)
-power adapter
-way to get the CF card data onto the pc either direct from camera or through cf card reader

Then if you add lense mount, lenses, and cards we are talking around $10,000 or more I am guessing. Then you have this great system, but you don't spend this much money and not get follow-focus, etc, which throws the price even higher. It's a domino effect with the modular approach, especially when necessary components are not included in price.

That is kind of the gotcha for me. I see that $2,500, but as soon as I add in all of the necessary components it goes way out of range for me.

The fixed-lense camera isn't intriguing to me at all, since I want to be able to use my Canon lenses(which is kind of the whole point of interest). But if I use my Canon lenses on the 2/3 option, then the crop factor is so intense that it is not an option anyway, which means all new lenses(and searching for lenses, which is a whole different battle).

I am guessing that people in my budget range will default to the 5d or D90, simply because they cannot afford Scarlet if they want to use still lenses.

Once you get to a certain price point, it is just as untouchable as red for the low-no-budget filmmaker. However, I am guessing that in like 5 years there will be an affordable option for us.

 

[Aiden Cornwell]

Then if you add lense mount, lenses, and cards we are talking around $10,000 or more I am guessing. Then you have this great system, but you don't spend this much money and not get follow-focus, etc, which throws the price even higher. It's a domino effect with the modular approach, especially when necessary components are not included in price.

That is kind of the gotcha for me. I see that $2,500, but as soon as I add in all of the necessary components it goes way out of range for me.

The fixed-lense camera isn't intriguing to me at all, since I want to be able to use my Canon lenses(which is kind of the whole point of interest). But if I use my Canon lenses on the 2/3 option, then the crop factor is so intense that it is not an option anyway, which means all new lenses(and searching for lenses, which is a whole different battle).

I am guessing that people in my budget range will default to the 5d or D90, simply because they cannot afford Scarlet if they want to use still lenses.

Once you get to a certain price point, it is just as untouchable as red for the low-no-budget filmmaker. However, I am guessing that in like 5 years there will be an affordable option for us.

I have the D90 right now. It is a fantastic stills camera it's low light performance is amazing, but it is not a film camera.

With that said I bought it because I never went to film school havd no experience with lenses ect. The D90 allows me to experiment and teach myself for about cameras.

 

[Jim Klatt]

It is not ideal, nor is the 5dmkii. It does offer a new tool to use lenses that I already own with a pretty good sensor(and the low light ability is huge).

With care for its strengths and awareness of its weaknesses, I think some pretty amazing things will be made with these slr's.

I think it is more of a situation where the low-no-budget filmmaker will buy whatever gives them the most bang for the extent of their buck. The Scarlet will just be too expensive for most of this crowd if they want interchangable lenses, so they will spend on a dslr with video.

Obviously another factor is that Scarlet won't be coming out for quite awhile and I don't have the patience to wait around for a product that has no firm dates on availability, price, or final form(maybe if I had the money it would be different). In the meantime, there is available technology that is not perfect, but will do and still exciting!

It is also an interesting sidenote that for many videographers who shoot events, the dslr's can satisfy the taste to have a shallow DOF tool to add to their arsenal, and it doesn't break the bank.

 

[Aiden Cornwell]

It is not ideal, nor is the 5dmkii. It does offer a new tool to use lenses that I already own with a pretty good sensor(and the low light ability is huge).

With care for its strengths and awareness of its weaknesses, I think some pretty amazing things will be made with these slr's.

I think it is more of a situation where the low-no-budget filmmaker will buy whatever gives them the most bang for the extent of their buck. The Scarlet will just be too expensive for most of this crowd if they want interchangable lenses, so they will spend on a dslr with video.

Obviously another factor is that Scarlet won't be coming out for quite awhile and I don't have the patience to wait around for a product that has no firm dates on availability, price, or final form(maybe if I had the money it would be different). In the meantime, there is available technology that is not perfect, but will do and still exciting!

It is also an interesting sidenote that for many videographers who shoot events, the dslr's can satisfy the taste to have a shallow DOF tool to add to their arsenal, and it doesn't break the bank.

I agree that the Scarlet is not for everyone and will be about 3 times the price as a d90 with lens. Though for most of the work I need something with less compression then what the d90 offers.

One thing is the more you practice with the d90 in video mode the better you get at manual focus. It is fantastic for training.

Oh one can shoot some great footage with the d90, web product shots comes to mind. Setup for the stills and then switch over to video for a little extra for the client. Fact is many clients will not notice the difference between the d3 and the d90 if good lenses and lighting is used.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

It is also an interesting sidenote that for many videographers who shoot events, the dslr's can satisfy the taste to have a shallow DOF tool to add to their arsenal, and it doesn't break the bank.

And how would you handle audio?

 

[Jason Badham]

$3750 for "power, finder and media module"

I asked in the Recon forum a few days ago about the possibility of the Fixed lens Scarlet package including a battery, cf module and I/O and Jim confirmed that "The all-in-one Scarlet Fixed 8x doesn't have all those modules".

So my guess is that the cf card slots are built-in (like in the original prototype), and possibly even the battery (which would account for the deeper size). I'm sure there would also be an audio connector(s). I think that RED's plan is still to have an "out-of-the-box" shooter with the Scarlet Fixed deal. Again, this is speculation - but I think it makes sense.

 

[Austin Glass]

Yea, that makes sense that they're built in. I was quoting Jon's "Scarlet FAQs" thread here, where he talks about "power, finder and media module." I can only assume, taking into account Jim's reply to your question, that these things that Jon mentions are incorporated into the body of the fixed Scarlet.

 

[Jim Klatt]

Luis, I have a zoom h4 and also a little microtrack. A slate clap will line things up for later editing.