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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K Quick Turn-Around Workflow - FCS2

A

Andrew Ceperley

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I'm new to the Red One workflow and am just starting to get familiar with the workings of the camera itself.

I'll be shooting a series of 3 short films in January for 6-7 days. They'll be shot using the Red One in 4k 2:1. We'll have one week in Post for each film to finish (editing and color correction) for their rough deliveries. I've seen so many different workflows for the Red One, but I'm curious what's going to work the best for this time-frame. The editor will want to edit using the medium-resolution Proxy files, not transcoded files, but I will want to color correct using the Raw 4k image...with no color/look changes made to it before or during editing. I want to have that 4k resolution when I color the final cut, but then have the final output as an Uncompressed 1080p quicktime for an HDCAM SR master (while hopefully retaining a 4k master to fall back on someday). Post Production will heavily involve Final Cut Pro and Shake. Probably not Color because I don't want to use transcoded ProRes422 files for the color correction and Color is limited to 10-bit.

The production does not have the budget for Scratch Cine.

Thanks, any help is GREATLY appreciated!
 
FCP Edit Proxies > XML > Crimson > RedCine (color correct) > ProRes2k > FCP with rendered ProRes2k > Any format you want

It's the quickest way, and the cheapest, you only have to spend money on Crimson. The only drawback is your color correction is done in RedCine, which is limited, but not too limited.
 
Andrew Ceperley said:
Probably not Color because I don't want to use transcoded ProRes422 files for the color correction and Color is limited to 10-bit.
Click to expand...

Why not?

You can CC R3D natively in Color from a QT M proxy that was edited in FCP. Although it makes a 2k final you wouldn't need more as you finish in HDCAM SR.

This is by far the quickest and cheapest workflow with fairly good quality.

If in the future you'll need 4k... then you'll be better off with a High-end postproduction house $$$$

Try the FCP/Color workflow.

My 2 cents.
:sarcasm:
Patrick
 
Color can calculate in 32 bit float and output to DPX.
 
For my money (and without having tested it, I might add), Patrick is probably right on. The only serious problem people are reporting with the FCP/Color route is 3K footage not rendering out to 2K, so as long as you really do shoot 4K 2:1 all the time you should be fine. As Patrick quite correctly states, you can edit the reference proxies and go directly from there to Color, which will then use the native R3D file to grade.

The Crimson workflow is great, but it's actually more expensive than the FCP/Color route (which requires no additional software for what you are talking about doing), and as vladk says means you end up grading in RC if you haven't got a DI suite or similar in which to grade a DPX stack.

Really, the decision for you is which software do you want to use to grade? RC or Color? Once you've made that decision, the rest is easy, either way...
 
Kenn Michael said:
The SDK delivers a 16bit RGB buffer from the R3D source.
Click to expand...

OK? How are you so sure about that?
I'm pretty sure it delivers 10 bit and the result with well lit and overexposed footage is better than from dpx's, but I'm still unsure about the last two bits. But if you have some examples/documentation to prove that statement (in the context of Color, that is), I'd love to see it.
 
The buffers will be 16bit because that is the precision that some of the math is done at. Although the source is 12bit, it will provide more useful information without rounding errors as a 16bit buffer than a 12bit buffer. Unless packed the 12bit buffer would be represented by the LSBs of a 16bit buffer anyway....

Graeme
 
Thank you everyone, I wasn't expecting all these responses!

I'd be more comfortable using Color (especially if Red Cine is limited), but I just want to make sure when I send the Med-Res Proxy sequence from FCP to Color, that I'll be using the original .r3d files, not the proxies. If that's the case, then Color will work the best for me. After the last three shorts we did had tons of color problems (due to the awful format we used...and 9 dead pixels to top it all off) I want as much resolution and latitude as possible (not like discovering the nearly-un-colorable 1440x1080 HDV footage we had last time). In the end, we are delivering on either HDCAM, HDCAM SR, or D5 (not sure which yet). I would, however, like to have a higher resolution master for my own archives. I don't want to shoot 4k and then permanently discard the max. resolution, despite what the delivery will be in.

I suppose the best way for me to test this (with no time to rent a camera ahead of time) would be to download footage and try the workflow myself. Any suggestions on where I can download 4k 2:1 files to test? Thanks!
 
As soon as you can see the "RED Room" active in Color, you can be sure it's using the native sources.
 
Andrew Ceperley said:
I suppose the best way for me to test this (with no time to rent a camera ahead of time) would be to download footage and try the workflow myself. Any suggestions on where I can download 4k 2:1 files to test? Thanks!
Click to expand...
No worries Andrew. I can't recommend testing enough, and I think that's a great call!

Original R3Ds are available at: www.redrelay.net

Happy testing mate!
Dom.
 
Hey guys. I installed the Quicktime and Final Cut updates but for some reason I'm not getting the Red settings in Color. FCP has the Red Log and Transfer function, but my clips show no picture in Color and I don't have a Red "room" or tab. Does anyone have any advice please?
 
Julio Quintana said:
Hey guys. I installed the Quicktime and Final Cut updates but for some reason I'm not getting the Red settings in Color. FCP has the Red Log and Transfer function, but my clips show no picture in Color and I don't have a Red "room" or tab. Does anyone have any advice please?
Click to expand...

You have to first install the FCS update (proapp update 2008-004) and THEN install the L&T update
 
Gunleik Groven said:
You have to first install the FCS update (proapp update 2008-004) and THEN install the L&T update
Click to expand...

But the FCS update installs the L&T update at the same time as everything else. Can someone tell me how to unistall the update without having to reinstall FCS? Sorry, I'm new to the Mac world.
 
There are two FCS updates to install - one directly from Apple via software update on your Mac, and (as Gunleik states) this must be done FIRST. Then, you install the FCS Installer from red.com/support.

That should get you going... And no worries about yur lack of Mac prowess, I just moved onto Macs about 8 months ago, so I know what it's like!!
 
Thanks for the fast responses guys. I'm downloading the Apple Proapp update now. But since I already installed the L&T Update from the Red website, do I need to uninstall the Red update before I install the Apple update? If so, how do I do that?
 
I think (I'm pretty sure about this, but not 100% - there are threads around about this, if you search) that you can simply re-install the Red FCS Installer package after the update and all should be well...

Cheers,
Dom.
 
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