Why only 30 fps????

[Deanan]

I think with all the advances RED offers over previously available cameras we sometimes take certain features for granted. The EPIC doesn't provide just a slight full rez framerate increase over Scarlet, it offers 70FPS more! That is more then double. That means the hardware has to handle more then twice the data per second. At 2K the EPIC does more then SIX times the framerate. That sounds like a serious hardware upgrade to me.

EPIC has to be many times faster. It's like the difference between laptop(Scarlet), 4 core tower (RED One) and a 16 core tower (EPIC).

 

[Tom Lowe]

EPIC has to be many times faster. It's like the difference between laptop(Scarlet), 4 core tower (RED One) and a 16 core tower (EPIC).

Hhmm. Well, FF35mm scarlet has a much bigger sensor and shoots 6K, so how could its computer be so paltry compared to Red One's? It seems like it would take more juice to crunch the numbers on that FF35mm 6K sensor than Red One's 35mm 4K?

 

[James T Mather]

Guys, for twenty years if we wanted to shoot a sync job on 35mm film and shoot 50fps slow motion we needed to rent two bodies (a sync sound Panaflex G2 and a high speed arri 435 or Panastar) - Until the Millennium or moviecam came out a couple of years ago those were our only options.

There have to be some limits on the Scarlet over the Epic otherwise why shell out the bigger dollars for the Epic? It makes no commercial sense whatsoever.

 

[Deanan]

Hhmm. Well, FF35mm scarlet has a much bigger sensor and shoots 6K, so how could its computer be so paltry compared to Red One's? It seems like it would take more juice to crunch the numbers on that FF35mm 6K sensor than Red One's 35mm 4K?

They are different architectures and analogies don't translate perfectly as Scarlet has a range of processing power (for 3k, 5k , 6k).
When you look at the bigger picture, REDone has more flexible processing power and brute force because it's FPGA based while Scarlet FF35 has more efficiency/less flexibility.

Maybe I should have used the car engine analogy instead...

 

[Tom Lowe]

There have to be some limits on the Scarlet over the Epic otherwise why shell out the bigger dollars for the Epic? It makes no commercial sense whatsoever.

Let Jim handle the business decisions. This makes no sense for customers to be sitting here arguing in FAVOR of limiting or holding back technology. Sheesh.

 

[James T Mather]

It seems to me Jim already made a business decision - to not offer high frame rates in the Scarlet based on the cost/manufacture vs. sale price of the system. I'm agreeing with his choice.

They've offered Scarletusers 60 fps at 3k - what else do you want at this price?

 

[Deanan]

Let Jim handle the business decisions. This makes no sense for customers to be sitting here arguing in FAVOR of limiting or holding back technology. Sheesh.

We still have to deal with power, space, and heat in a small package which are the biggest limiting factors. Scarlet is so much smaller and the challenge that much harder.

 

[Tico Llaurador]

I'll take 60 fps at 3K rez. Thank you! :biggrin:

 

[Kaku Ito]

The new specs on Scarlet say FF35mm will shoot 3K @ 60fps. Can anyone on the Red team tell us how this is achieved? Cropping? And if so, how significant is the cropping?

Tom, where did you find that information?

Edit:
Never mind, found it here.

 

[Clayton Talmon]

Same with me. 60 fps at 3K is brilliant.

Very grateful!

Any sense of when we'll see a price on the fixed lens Scarlet?

 

[JanneJansson]

Let Jim handle the business decisions. This makes no sense for customers to be sitting here arguing in FAVOR of limiting or holding back technology. Sheesh.

Because of the modular structure, there will be many ways that Scarlet, Epic and R1 will find there own market. A Scarlet with a $7000 brain, fully loaded comparable to R1 with sound, CF, etc, may cost more than R1.

Cheers

 

[Tom Lowe]

It seems to me Jim already made a business decision - to not offer high frame rates in the Scarlet based on the cost/manufacture vs. sale price of the system. I'm agreeing with his choice.

They've offered Scarletusers 60 fps at 3k - what else do you want at this price?

Nothing. I'm happy with that. I've been happy with that since it was announced.

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

Here's the specs on an Aaton A-Minima Super16 Mini-Cam Package for $14,869.86 which shoots at Speeds: 1 to 32fps on internal lithium batteries. 50fps on external NiMH.

So basically for a $2500 2/3 brain from red you'll be able to shoot at 120fps when with a $15,000 film camera you can only shoot 50fps.

So what? The A Minima is for pro guys who can rent whatever they want according to the gig: if they want to do slo-mo, they might simply get the right gear. I don't think Aaton never indended the Minima to be purchased by the indie\ENG\whatever people who can only buy one camera and so need it to be as much versatile as possible.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Yes, the overcranking capabilities of the big Scarlets are very nice for the price.

But to further comfort the unhappy segment of REDOne users, Jim could focus first on the 2/3" Scarlets and leave the 35mm Scarlets for late 2009\early 2010. :devil:

That gives another year+ of REDOne dominance, which is, I think, more than enough for them to make good cash with the camera.


Just sayin. :devil:

 

[Tom Lowe]

Yes, the overcranking capabilities of the big Scarlets are very nice for the price.

But to further comfort the unhappy segment of REDOne users, Jim could focus first on the 2/3" Scarlets and leave the 35mm Scarlets for late 2009\early 2010. :devil:

That gives another year+ of REDOne dominance, which is, I think, more than enough for them to make good cash with the camera.

Just sayin. :devil:

Nice try.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Because of the modular structure, there will be many ways that Scarlet, Epic and R1 will find there own market. A Scarlet with a $7000 brain, fully loaded comparable to R1 with sound, CF, etc, may cost more than R1.

Cheers

Hi,

As the price of a used Red One will fall that will be true, for a new cameras the Scarlet will undoubtedly be cheaper.

Stephen

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Heheh.

I think the Scarlet that really deserves the increased wait\price is the FF35mm Monstro Scarlet.

~13 stops + 16 bit color will kick film hard.

I so much want to see stills\footage from that beast.

Nevertheless, I plan to focus my bitchin on the earlier release of the 2/3" interchangeable Scarlet. :devil:

Maybe I'll also do some bitchin for a Monstro 2/3" Scarlet at ~ 5k $. but that will be too much, perhaps.



Things are good.

 

[diskojerk]

So what? The A Minima is for pro guys who can rent whatever they want according to the gig: if they want to do slo-mo, they might simply get the right gear. I don't think Aaton never indended the Minima to be purchased by the indie\ENG\whatever people who can only buy one camera and so need it to be as much versatile as possible.

The point is, that you are getting much better features on a $2500 (base price) scarlet than you would get purchasing a traditional film camera (at more than 3 or 4 times the price). For people who think that the Scarlet is somehow 'limited', it is just a reference point.

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

The point is, that you are getting much better features on a $2500 (base price) scarlet than you would get purchasing a traditional film camera (at more than 3 or 4 times the price). For people who think that the Scarlet is somehow 'limited', it is just a reference point.

Hmmm, yeah, I guess you're right. But I still cannot escape the idea that 30 fps are too little...60 might be good: you don't get incredible results, but at least the images go slow.
I am not criticizing the guys at RED - probably, there are some limitations in the technology and they can't put everything in the Scarlet...not to mention the fact that they cannot have their products competing with each other..I guess the big and relatively big guys will use it as a b-camera or only for hand-held shot and complicated shots (like strange angles in cramped locations)...pretty much like the Arriflex 35 3C or the A Minima.

 

[Gary Stone]

for the tiny amount of slow motion work i would do...i'll just get the fixed lens scarlet in addition to the S35 scarlet...not to mention this would become a helluva B cam.