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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

13+ stops....

P

Patrick Jennings

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so the RED ONE is supposed to have 11 stops (10+ on the new chart) but after people tested it, it only really has about 8 stops....

so does that mean the 13+ stops is actually going to be around 11? which is great! but a fare bit shy of film...

with all the hype i thought we'd see 16+ stops. using some kind of dual layer of large pixels and offset small pixels in a mesh type sensor. but that's probably 10 years away.

maybe they'll wow us with awesome ISO ratings.. like super clean ISO 10,000 :w00t:
 
direct quote from wikipedia... and wikipedia is NEVER wrong :)

"Red has measured the sensor's signal to noise ratio at greater than 66 dB,[2] and claims 11.3 stops of total dynamic range.[3] However, the dynamic range reported from many cinematographers including Richard Bluck, place the camera's dynamic range significantly lower, at about 8 stops. This difference is probably attributable to the use of different mechanisms for measuring dynamic range. Red rates the sensor at 320 ISO natively."


this is just the quickest reference i could find... there are many others
 
Without documentary proof, they are meaningless. When this discussion first arose way back I posted documentary proof. And yes, there are many ways to measure something, so without posting your measuring methodology, it's meaningless. And then there's differences in what do you mean by DR?

Graeme
 
i dig that. but the general concusses with most people in the real world is the red one has about 8-9 stops depending on the lighting.

as you said, it's all been talked about to death ages ago.

what i'm getting at is MONSTRO sounds great!! but with all the hype of a film/dslr killer, i was expecting 16+ with a real world concusses of 14. at the moment it's just on par with the f355.... and it's a year away
 
I'm good. I don't know what we're going to get until we test it. What Jim has put up are intelligent predictions.

Graeme
 
Graeme,
The point of the camera is not about getting 'absolute' figures of the RedOne in laboratory conditions.

It annoys me a little that you take this defence as I haven't seen you post comparative results of other cameras under whatever conditions you choose.

D
 
I'd opine that the most widely accepted results comparing different products would come from an independent third party, rather than any specific manufacturer.
 
Measuring product performance

Measuring product performance

Personally I'd be guided by the manufacturer's specs plus their specified testing conditions.

The problem with third party "side by side" testing is that the specific workflow used often affects the results you obtain.

There have been several examples of attempting to test multiple vendor products using a "reference setup".

Usually one or more of the manufacturers objects to the findings because of the product setup or analysis used.
 
I would agree with Stuart here. One of the other issues in measuring DR is that there is no absolute reference. Where does one say that there is too much noise on the floor to consider it an acceptable part of the range?
 
It's a good question what ever happened to the RED One being 11+ stops? All of a sudden it dropped down to 10 stops. Don't believe the hype too much on the 13+ stops as Graeme said its an intelligent guess. Heck a guess is a guess.
 
Sorry guys...don't agree.
If I can't get someone like dpreview or other to do a simple 'comparative' test between one of their canons/nikons & Red & other digital cine cameras, something is wrong.
Or maybe the CML test was more right than wrong.
Either way it's a test the paying public deserve.
D
 
yeah.. I opt dpreview do some tests... We should give dpreview some cameras to test.
 
Performance measurement

Performance measurement

I'll just refer you to my earlier post, so maybe we just have to agree to disagree.
 
Richard Bluck did his tests a year ago on Build 8 (maybe it was 6). Read some back posts on what has happened since. I have since received emails from Richard (and Peter Jackson) who are both amazed at how far the RED ONE has come from the early days.

BTW, we have tested the RED ONE at 11.3 stops and published them. So have others independently. We chose to show conservative specs on the chart to avoid this type of banter. Measure DNR and actual shooting latitude are not necessarily the same thing.

This is just noise here...

Jim
 
problems with testing

problems with testing

Stuart English said:
Personally I'd be guided by the manufacturer's specs plus their specified testing conditions.

The problem with third party "side by side" testing is that the specific workflow used often affects the results you obtain.

There have been several examples of attempting to test multiple vendor products using a "reference setup".

Usually one or more of the manufacturers objects to the findings because of the product setup or analysis used.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with this, but I'd argue this is what happens in any actual use as well. The specific setup and the specific methods of analysis or judging are going to affect the outcome. So maybe the problem is the assumption that some objective, absolute number or set of numbers is a good way to compare different imaging systems.
 
That's okay Stuart.

The trouble with saying a camera is 11.3 or 10+ stops measured 'our' way is they are simply numbers.
People have no frame of reference that they can gauge that number....11.3 stops
....well maybe a stouffer chart on a lightbox viewed through a photoshop grade.
It's a marketing number that give me no comparative measure to another camera.
This isn't fair to the public....well who said marketing was fair!!
But I greatly respect you and Graeme as men of science.
And if either of you tell me a test (or range of tests) to compare the Red's ability to measure latitude response can't repeated on other cameras fairly, (meaning it's more right than wrong)..well I'll believe you.
D
 
OK I guess the Epic will be 14.3 stops then.
 
Akube said:
yeah.. I opt dpreview do some tests... We should give dpreview some cameras to test.
Click to expand...

Please don't. Dpreviews tests are technically inconsistently done and notoriously flawed.
 
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