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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Mount? W.T.F. and NO THANKS

Stephen Williams said:
Hi Jarred,

Other than being large, heavy & expensive I cant think where cinema lenses don't perform wel in a still enviroment.

Stephen
Click to expand...

I think we're talking auto focus and electronic iris, that kind of thing. Does anyone need or want this on a $12,000+ DSLR ?

I can currently choose from several awesome 24MP full frame DSLR's that are really good for much less money. All of them will be smaller and lighter than the operational ( viewfinder, batteries, cables, storage ) scarlet and I can leave it on for weeks and then take a picture in fraction of a second when I press the button.

Can you guys just concentrate on making great digital cinema cameras and CINEMA lenses ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
I'll be very interested in checking out the new RED mount for the Epics I buy. I'll buy at least one S35 Epic and al least one FF35 Epic. Working in several areas of the motion media and stills media industry like I do (cine, hybrid cine/EFP, EFP, stills), the convergent concepts of Epic (and Scarlet) seriously interest me, as do the new RED electronic lenses for use in my field workflow. I've heard that same sentiment from several associates in the styles I work in - except my cine style associates of course. I will buy each of those new RED electronic lenses, plus both extenders.

Yes, I'm very interested in auto-focus and image stabilization on those lenses. In certain shooting situations they will be good aids. With 1:1 image magnification for manual sight focusing, and auto focus for certain quick shots, the genre and style capability is expanded - and that's what I want.

There are a lot of us here and out in the industry whose genre and workflow requirements don't always call for PL lenses and an all-manual environment.

What would be cool is if the new RED mount was a universal mount, where the mount base could accept adaptors for PL, RED electronic, Canon, Nikon, and others.

Everybody can build the camera they need from what RED is offering. Flexibility, utility, and scalability...
 
Here, here! Steve says what I'm thinking again! Give that man a drink!

OVALTINE! (With apologies to Cloris Leachman)
 
Mark Phelan said:
Here, here! Steve says what I'm thinking again! Give that man a drink!

OVALTINE! (With apologies to Cloris Leachman)
Click to expand...

Cheers! For me Ovaltine will do just fine...
 
Hmmm, this is a hard one. I can see the point of both angles here. I think the addition of the Red mount will be very useful for those starting a hybrid system from the ground up. Especially those who are most interested in a lightweight field video system capable of stock quality stills. Those of us who are cinema centric will be more apt to see the two as mutually exclusive. I have a substantial investment in AF Nikkors and I doubt they'll be fully functional on an Epic or Scarlet (Although I'd be pleased as punch to find out otherwise) so for stills it looks like I'll stick with the D3 or upcoming D3x. I'm absolutely going to get a FF Epic and a PL mount though. And I do agree with Matt that the PL Red primes (Especially the 18mm) should be first priority before any other lenses are developed. It looks like that's the case though, here's a photo from yesterday of Ted with a working proto...
RedTedEpic+Lens.jpg

Courtesy of Mike Curtis at PVC.

Once I have enough cash for a 645 Epic though I'm gonna have a Hasselblad mount made and go shoot my own Baraka!
 
Right, a UMS or Universal Mount System. But it looks to me like you just remove four screws and swap mounts (?) which is easier that the current R1 and also a UMS in and of itself!
 
RED MOUNT

Does it really have to be another flimsy twist lock bayonet type?
Just because everyone else uses thin steel parts in this application doesn't dictate that it has to be this way on a DSMC...

What RED could bring to the game was a light mount that was as sturdy and with the same lens seating precision as PL, but with the ease of a twist lock.

I can see why they want to make their own line of modern lightweight AF photo lenses. You dont want to carry cinestyle lumps of aluminium in a small walk around bag, And with regards to the mount, reverse engineering the EF protocol might be a really bad idea and a support nightmare in the long run.

Making their own mount also makes sense as they can dictate their own flange depth, now that the mirror box is gone. And not to mention that the EF protocol is so limited with it's 80' technology.

Really solid internal mechanics and body-lens connection is really what the competing systems are missing.
 
Like Evin, I think a PL mount FF35 Epic hits the sweet spot for me and the jobs that I do. Maybe an extra canon or nikon stills mount so I can shoot vista-vision in special resolution intensive situations... No Scarlet plans... well maybe the one with a 2/3 inch sensor with a canon 7-56 on it for runaround stuff.

Auto focus is going to be pretty hairy on a FF35 sensor - I'm not saying Red won't do it well and that it won't get some of the frame perfectly in focus. The problem is that telling the AF which point is the right point to focus on in the heat of battle is going to be way harder than just pulling manually.

Gibby is the last guy who should be waiting around for AF, I've seen him nail a shot of a car racing at him @ 300mm.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
I sat next to Mike Curtis yesterday at the Red event at Fox Studios. I was standing there when he took that pic of Ted with the proto brain block/RED prime proto. Ted gave no indication in his presentation what the priority of lens manufacture is.

One observation: RED has obviously grown in staff size and capability at various facilities around the world if they have already caught up with shipping demand for RED One. That may be an indication that their development and fabrication staff is large enough now to bang out serious amounts of product - including lenses. I guess what I'm saying is that we don't necessarily need to assume that RED lens manufacturing is an "either/or" situation. They may very well be able to develop, fabricate, and bring to market both the cine primes and new electronic lenses simultaneously - without slowing down the production of either production line.

As for the RED mount, if it can be changed out very quickly with a few screws and there aren't a lot of hoops to jump through as far as back focus, then multiple quick change mounts would be very viable. Failing that, a universal mount base, with multiple mounts that attach on top of it would be my vote. I think Anders also has a good point about mount strength. I'd like to see the new RED mount be robust and secure lenses well.

Matt - I thought you forgot about that RED 300mm sight focused shot I did at LART with the car driving up! Fun stuff. I track fast moving objects using sight focus for a significant part of my daily work (sports, nature, etc.). With practice, it gets out of the scenario of reactive sight focusing, and turns into instinctual anticipatory sight focusing. For a long time now with RED One I've been sight focusing fast moving sports and nature subjects using my Canon 150-600, sometimes all the way out to 600mm, and at times wide open at times (f5.6). But when I shoot certain sports and nature things with my DSLR (Mark II/Canon 600mm) setup I love having both autofocus and image stabilization.

I would be stoked beyond measure if the RED electronic lenses also had an Auto/Manual focus switch, and a focus ring, so that when needed I could change to manual sight focusing and simply rack focus using 1:1 image magnification and the new RED 1080p EVF just announced. For hybrid cine/EFP jobs that also require shooting digital stills that would be a sweet setup - rather than having to carry around a dedicated DSLR. That's not a viable scenario for union and/or pure cine style productions, but it is very viable for the huge number of indie mid to small crew size productions in the hybrid cine/EFP and non-hardlined EFP production industries. All networks, in the case of television production, and clients, in the case of business media, require production stills be made from a project for promotions, behind-the-scenes, etc. Even for pure cine style productions, having a roving camera that could simultaneously or alternately be shooting production stills and "The making of" footage would be very cool - sounds like another good use for a FF35 Scarlet.

Media convergence is about to take a large step forward - and I very much like the idea of bidding on convergent motion and stills media productions and fattening up my revenue - while I'm also simultaneously expanding my skill sets and combining my art styles.

Interesting times ahead gents...
 
The Arri 765 uses a much larger PL-type lens mount, called the Mega-PL. Panavision's System 65 lens mount is equally larger than their 35mm lens mount.

Of course I have a set of lenses sitting next to my desk that are PL mount and specifically engineered to cover the 65mm image area. It can be done but there are compromises. Covering FF35 (aka VistaVision) in PL mount is not tough either, such as our rehoused Leica lenses. No compromises there!
 
Mitch Gross said:
The Arri 765 uses a much larger PL-type lens mount, called the Mega-PL. Panavision's System 65 lens mount is equally larger than their 35mm lens mount.

Of course I have a set of lenses sitting next to my desk that are PL mount and specifically engineered to cover the 65mm image area. It can be done but there are compromises. Covering FF35 (aka VistaVision) in PL mount is not tough either, such as our rehoused Leica lenses. No compromises there!
Click to expand...
Mitch,
what kind of compromises are there?
I kinda asked this elsewhere...but saying why can you add a modified PL mount.
But then I looked at my 18-50 PL mount lens and the back element is so far back in lens chamber that it looks like the 'image' is projected parallel onto the sensor once it leaves the back element.
So just moving the lens away from the sensor isn't going to make a big difference.
Dave
 
First thing to happen is if you project the light over a larger area the brightness will decrease. From S35 to FF35 you'd lose two stops. Second, any chromatic abberations, pincushioning or other artifacts will likely increase as the lens is moved out. Designing a lens is always a balancing act of various optical issues. The designers try to optimize these issues for focusing an image at 52mm depth. Expand that distance and you may find other issues popping up, such as corner sharpness dropping off way more dramatically from the center than you previously seen.

There's a whole host of other factors but it's late here and I think you get the idea. You can do it but it is likely to seriously compromise your image.
 
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