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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The big choice: Epic S35 or FF35...

JanneSFE said:
..then be first with Epic, have an advantage :)
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I would love to be... with an epic FF35. I have the money on stand by and not scared to pull the trigger. Just not interested in the S35.
 
facetmedia said:
Yeah that's all good when you have more money to play with. I see a lot of people that got their balls snipped crying on here about not being capable of upgrading to an Epic. Yeah they sure had balls when they bought into an R1. Only to be delayed by accessories back order and an overly saturated market.
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$10k to upgrade to EPIC is an awesome deal considering all the improvements.

I think once EPIC comes out, people won't hesitate to upgrade.
 
Ariana said:
$10k to upgrade to EPIC is an awesome deal considering all the improvements.

I think once EPIC comes out, people won't hesitate to upgrade.
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Yeah Epic FF35... I had money for two more R1's now back in the piggy bank waiting on the Epic. I don't see all the improvements with the S35. Its funny how RED just switched the Dynamic Range of the R1's... lol. Suddenly its 10 stops instead of over 11. In any case by my guess work it will cost at least 20k to upgrade to any Epic.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around pulling focus on a FF35, or even, god forbid, a 645!!!:help:
 
I think Mark is right. Get the S35, then get the FF35.

(congrats on the baby!)

The other problem this will solve for me is that once I upgrade to the FF35, I've got a solid back up "brain". That has been a real issue for me as an "owner/operator". Whenever I get booked on a shoot I make some calls to make sure I have a back up camera a phone call away.

The modularity of the system really makes this all feasable.

If you make a living as a DP, making the money back is a no brainer. I paid for my R1 in the first few months. It was everything else (matte box, filters, tripod) that dug in to the bank account - and I'll continue to use that gear with the new cameras.

Fun ride, no?
 
The way it looks to me is that it's a clear upgrade path. You change sensor and mount and you're ready to go?

What I'm hoping for is an upgrade path by RED, when it comes to costs, that is not to steep. Because it looks to me that you simply change your mounts according to preference of shooting, that is if you have the larger sensor installed.

Now this is all speculation, of course, but if we're able to shoot ANA windowed (as said in a thread somewhere) why can't we shoot PL windowed and so on and then change and shoot 645 when we want to?
 
Another thing to consider is that, unless there's options to lower the data rate (which I'm sure there will), Epic run at 225MB/sec, which is over 6 times more than Redcode36. At this rate, a RED Drive with 320GB gives you about 22 minutes of footage, and a 16GB card... 67sec. This is without counting the transcode time, the storage needed, etc..

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but those are things that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
 
as funny as it might sound...

but i would let FOOTAGE decide whether to go with s35 ff35 scarlet/epic.
i'm really looking forward to see some footage shot on an epic. the shot of the "milk girls" when it got first released? that was the moment i decided that i had to shoot with the red one camera asap.

i guess the day i'll see a "milk girl" shot equivalent, shot on one of the new cameras - that day will be my personal 13th of november.

plus there's other stuff that i would consider apart from the obvious resolution, frame rate etc. that 1min.45second-ish booting time for instance, really took me by surprise when i was shooting with the red for the first time.

tanner

p.s.: jim (and of course the red team in general) if you're hearing this - although it is a ridiculously small chance you haven't considered this already - i shall officially suggest at this point to shoot something like you guys did with the red one asap. if this is going to look like what i think it's going to look like - well...
 
Dominique Grenier said:
Another thing to consider is that, unless there's options to lower the data rate (which I'm sure there will), Epic run at 225MB/sec, which is over 6 times more than Redcode36. At this rate, a RED Drive with 320GB gives you about 22 minutes of footage, and a 16GB card... 67sec. This is without counting the transcode time, the storage needed, etc..

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but those are things that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
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I doubt a RED Drive is fast enough not even sure a RED RAM is, for reading maybe but not for writing.
 
If I'm reading the announcement right, the S35 Epic brain uses the 12bit MysteriumX sensor with 11 stops of DR. The FF35 Epic gets the 16bit Monstro sensor with 13 stops.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Some explain to me why the FF35 Epic would be better than the S35 Epic again? Would the picture quality of cropping the FF35 sensor to a S35 window be the same, better, or worse, than using an EPIC with a S35 sensor?
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Yes, it's the dynamic range I'm after, not the larger sensor.
 
If the Red One is upgradeable to a Monstro sensor, then I would think that the Epic S35mm is too.

Perhaps that is why there was a mention of a free upgrade to the Monstro sensor for people who bought the Epic.... since it looks like the Monstro is coming out only 3 - 6 months later than the release date of the S35 with the Mysterium X chip.

One would buy the Epic S35mm, shoot with the X chip, and then either get a free upgrade or pay for the Monstro chip.

My question is: consider an S35mm Monstro vs. the FF35 Monstro. What would be the advantages, if any, of going with the FF35? IF you are staying with PL mount lenses.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Some explain to me why the FF35 Epic would be better than the S35 Epic again?
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There are many reasons. The first that most people will point to is that they use different chips - the s35 uses the "Mysterium-X," while the FF35 uses the Monstro. According to the data tables on the new page, the Monstro chip yields two more stops of dynamic range, much better A/D conversion, and larger photosites than the Mysterium. All significant upgrades.

The second reason is that the sensor itself is quite a bit larger in physical size. All other things being equal, a larger sensor is going to yield a higher-quality image because when you oversample down to your finishing format (1080p, 2K or 4K for projection, whatever...), you get the benefits of reduced noise, a smoothing out of aliasing properties, and a slightly better DR curve. I've made the analogy several times, but if you want to end up with a 1MP still image to show people, you'd be much better off shooting it with an 8MP camera and oversampling than you would with a 1MP native camera. RED deserves huge kudos for breaking the s35 barrier and getting us into better image quality territory.

The side effect will be that those who own PL-lenses or can't be bothered to use newer, different format glass will see less of an improvement with the FF35 camera because slapping s35 glass in front of the bigger sensor means you can't use the entire thing and the benefits of the larger image is lost. However, you still get the expanded dynamic range and better A/D conversion which will translate into better images so no matter how you slice it, the FF35 is a better option. It's just that much better of an option if you can move away from PL glass.
 
Jim Exton said:
If the Red One is upgradeable to a Monstro sensor, then I would think that the Epic S35mm is too.
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Like Mark pointed out, I think the whole point of the "brain" approach is that all you need to do to get a better sensor is buy a new brain. All of the controls, outputs, media connections, etc. are separate and will latch on to any brain you choose. That's precisely why they're calling them brains and not bodies. So if you make a RED s35 system and configure it with the components you want and later decide you want the FF35 sensor, you just swap out the brain. No "upgrade" path is necessary. This is not the case for the RED ONE where the controls, outputs, and media connections are all physical parts of the RED ONE body.
 
One other swap out...

One other swap out...

Häakon said:
So if you make a RED s35 system and configure it with the components you want and later decide you want the FF35 sensor, you just swap out the brain. No "upgrade" path is necessary.
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I'm sure you're not overlooking the other thing you have to, "just swap out;" the extra $28,000.00.

Perhaps in the world of A-list feature films this is merely chump change, but for many of us it's highly significant.

I'm mostly on board with the, "rendering obsolescence obsolete," mantra, but having to pay close to thirty grand more for the latest and greatest is daunting.

While the Mysterium X may be fine for my own commercial projects, I would think rental houses would be under tremendous pressure to have the Monstro sensor cameras. How many renters would refuse a small premium for 13+ stops of DR? Red One rental rates are already quite low; I can see the S35 Epics sitting lonely on the rental shelf.

Rather than a $28,000.00 Brain, how about a $7,000.00 (or so) replacement sensor? That would make me much happier about my trade in for the S35 Epic. I would consider that much more along the lines of obsolescence obsolete.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
To that, I'd say it's a bit silly to be investing $28,000 in a 5K camera if 6K is what you really want. I think you can wait the 3 months or whatever it takes for the FF version to come out if that's the camera you need - and then you're only paying the additional $7,000.

Also, you would then be able to sell your original "brain" to another interested party - the $28,000 wouldn't be a loss. Their product offering line makes complete sense to me.
 
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