Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My RED ONE (arrival date tomorrow) has just been Rendered OBSOLETE

marcb said:
Joe,
RedOne is a fantastic camera! I´m still loving it. It´s the most amazing tool I ever worked with. And it´s real today! You can start shooting right away. How many more months will it take to see the first Scarlet which is not a computer render? And how many months more until you will have it in your hands?
(BTW, I´m sure, if you want Scarlet with sound and everything else like the Red1 includes, you will also end with 17K or more).

RedOne is awesome!!! Enjoy unpacking and start shooting with it!
Just do it and you will see!

Cheers
Marc
Click to expand...

Good advice. Thanks, Marc.
 
AntiMutant said:
Everyone let down by this news, and those "relieved" that they haven't bought a R1 yet, should understand. In a few short years, at most, the Epic and Scarlett will be as "obsolete" as the R1 and F900.

Honestly, look at technology over the last few years. You will be able to buy an "Epic-Killer", whether from Red, or another company, for much less money than any of us think possible today.

Obviously Red liked the SI-2K modular design. Sony or Canon or Panasonic is going to see what Red is doing and do the same.

I understand the disappointment, actually. I have a Red and an SI-2K. Gear sluts are in for an expensive ride to stay on top.

Soderburgh just shot 2 films with the Red. Danny Boyle just shot his Slumdog Millionaire with the SI-2K. I bet these guys are up at night wondering why they didn't wait for the Scarlett! :wacko:

Rant over. Yes I have that twinge of pain at the crazy rate of obsolescence in technology, but then I remember that I can get back to work and make movies, with my own cameras, that I could never have made (image quality-wise) a few years ago.
Click to expand...


Know how to render obsolescence obsolete? Start making decent features and selling them so that you don't have to own.

Better get R done.
 
I think it's just the shock of this news that is making Red One owners pollute their britches.
As it settles down you'll realise several things:

It'll probably be at least six months before these models are anywhere near ready as stated release dates are subject to change (echoes of red One release there).

The Epic exchange is a great thing giving people a good six months to save up the cash for the extra.
(Ithink Red are offering the exchange with only one model of scarlet because they'd make less money back on the exchanges on the other scarlet models. They want to be loyal to customers but thay have to make a few quid.

The Red one is still incredibly cheap for what it offers and because a cheaper variant has come out peopel are crying foul. Don't forget what Sony were charging for there pissant HDcams and the like.

My Red One is yet to be delivered, Iam nervous but happy at the same time.
I do believe though that the upgrade to Epic is probably worthwhile I really think they'll cease manufacturing the Red One sometime after Scarlets release, regardless of this sensor upgrade.
 
i can´t follow all this threads today.

1) it usual that electronic is improved in more and more short time-periods.
2) red one IS STILL a great camera.
and there is no delivery of any of the new cams yet. so - relax and shoot the next 12-15 month without thinking of something better or not. we have to tell stories and we have to visualize good ideas. and red one is a great tool for this, nothing changed because of this day.
3) red one is a classic, a pioneer device. without red one and all of us who purchased it - there would not be a scarlet, and no epic. all of us are part of the development of even better cameras with our feedbacks and experiences about our redone.

so please - go on and shoot with red one until there are more hard facts of final delivery and specs ... , collect experiences with red one that will flow into new red cameras. from my side, a big applause for the new products. looking forward to all of this, and looking forward for my shoot at the weekend - with red one :biggrin:
 
Joe Taylor said:
I just spent $20,000 + and was likely to spend more on a camera that is still on the FED EX truck and already this camera has just been "RENDERED OBSOLETE" by the people who promised me (us) that it never would.

I sort of expected this from the EPIC-- but now Scarlet is a substantially better camera than my yet unboxed RED ONE.

(Oh, by the way. For a year I've been told the RED ONE is 12 MP. Today's news says 9.2. What the hell is with that.)

This morning I sort of feel like RED did an Indiana Jones on me South Park style.
Click to expand...


SandeepDey said:
I barely have my RED One. I haven't yet shot a single frame (waiting on a glass delivery).
I feel slightly let down by the Scarlet, too close to the RED for the price differential. But I will probably be upgrading to an EPIC and get a Scarlet as a second unit.
It is obvious the 11/13/08 announcement is a day of mixed reaction for the not-so-early adopters.
Click to expand...



You guys don't have the slightest clue what your new camera is capable of.
Did you buy the camera to brag about it or to capture beautiful moving images ?

Well you can capture beautiful moving images.
Great effort and technical achievements have been made, which you are not aware of, just so you could to that.


The bad feeling is caused by your ego. Deal with that and enjoy the ride.
 
Well, now you own a Red One! I would so love to say the same thing. I hear what your saying, but I also think today's announcement made all your alternatives much more obsolete than your new Red One. Like so many other folks have noted, you'll have several months to use your camera and you'll still qualify for the exchange programs. An accountant may be able to explain the nuances of that benefit to you better than I can. Its like you just put a Scarlet, or Epic on layaway and got a loaner until next Summer.
 
This time I beat him... heheh.

Jim will be by to post a link to another one of his recent posts that addresses all the crap going around the forum:

The "electronic engines" are different between each of these camera models. That means there are format capability differences. For example, the RED ONE has 4K, 3K, 2K, 1080P (soon) and anamorphic format options. It does ramping, time-lapse, has 4 channel 24-bit audio, etc. Scarlet will NOT have the full flexibility of a RED ONE. EPIC has more capability and flexibility than the other two. It is one of the reasons that the Scarlet body is smaller than an EPIC.

Just so you can figure that into your planning.

Scarlet will have limited format options.

RED ONE has many format options.

EPIC has virtually unlimited format options.
 
Akube said:
I dont get it! how can something that is 17.5k, is 7k a year later??? Only the newer product is way better than the previous.

Something is clearly off.

Please give me an example of a "camera", please no other product bullshit.. we are talking about cameras here, so give us an example of another "camera" that was generations ahead in technology and was so drastically cheaper the following year.

I am not speculating... I have a question.. I would like to be answered.
Click to expand...

Well, you could make a pretty good case for it when MiniDV was introduced in 1995. One year the highest quality camcorders were recording Betacam 4.2 Mhz or about 350 lines of resolution at 46 db signal to noise at about $30K+. MiniDV camcorders were producing and recording 5.5 MHz or about 440 lines at 54db SNR - a huge difference and the 3 chip MiniDV camcorders were only $3000. Now I can buy a widescreen version at circuit city for just over $200. The reason you didn't normally see the huge reductions is Japan, Inc. completely controlled the video market so Panasonic, Sony, et al would just dribble out the technology and control the pricing.

Bottom line is RED started this with the REDONE - four times the resolution at one fourth the price of an F900 - a sixteen times price/performance jump. Yet at $17,500 there was still a lot of room to move. So it is kind of silly when you think about it, to not anticipate that there was another round of drastic price reductions available. The mysteriumX and monstro chips are essentially 3 years newer technology, so a generation or two of technological/price advanced. The circuits themselves aren't that expensive and RED has even had time to develop custom chips if necessary, and now that the firmware/software is developed to a sufficiently professional level they can bring down those prices. Given that the introduction of the Canon 5D MKII means the writing is on the wall of where this is going and the old video model has been overturned, RED probably needs to move to the next phase without trying to be overly protective of the original model. (Remember with the trade in to EPIC they have given us a reasonable price protection.)

The way I look at it as far as practical economics is if you bought a REDONE you really bought an EPIC - the fully upgraded, polished/debugged, etc. supercamera we have all wanted.

And I don't mean we didn't get all we should have with the REDONE, I mean that in retrospect the REDONE is a real challenger to film - but it is borderline enough (3.2K effective debayered resolution, Dynamic range, limited frame rates at 4K, and fairly high compression) to keep the film/digital argument raging. When you get to the EPIC I think you really get to the filmkiller point in all of those areas.

We essentially gave them a $17500 deposit and will pay the rest when EPIC arrives - but in the meantime we have basically the best camera out there to use and make money with now. I got mine in January so have had enough time to make all of my investment back, and even if you just received your RED you have 6 to 9 months to do the same.

If you remember back to when the HVX200 (which had a lot of the features many of us had been looking for) was introduced at the NAB before we saw the REDONE - it was a block of wood in a case at the Pana booth. It is as if Panasonic had said - "look it will be a year and a half before you can get this but we will sell you a DVX100 and you can shoot with it until then and then we will give you full credit toward the HVX". But of course Panasonic didn't do that and neither has any other company - except RED.

If all you ever wanted was the Scarlet level "indycam" then I can see how you would be disappointed with having a RED now, and really your financial solution is to find someone that wants to get an EPIC down the road and will use your camera to trade in. But if you want the true filmkiller camera with specs as good or beyond what any of us really anticipate needing in our lifetime, then I think EPIC is it and you can be really happy that you have a REDONE to shoot and become familiar with now and a relatively painless step into the future.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
If all you ever wanted was the Scarlet level "indycam" then I can see how you would be disappointed with having a RED now, and really your financial solution is to find someone that wants to get an EPIC down the road and will use your camera to trade in. But if you want the true filmkiller camera with specs as good or beyond what any of us really anticipate needing in our lifetime, then I think EPIC is it and you can be really happy that you have a REDONE to shoot and become familiar with now and a relatively painless step into the future.
Click to expand...

The problem is that people are pissed that they won't have top of the line anymore (when they were promised so)... because some can't afford to move to a decent Epic.. heck I wouldn't purchase the low end mysterium Epic. That means a R1 owner now must have the capability of mustering up around $27,500 (cost of accessories included... looks like we will need at least 4 new pieces). If they can't muster it up then they face 2 options of selling their camera or letting it turn into a old sentimental camera. RED didn't give these people an option to get a Scarlet... that kinda sucks... but hey its a tough world.

R1 owners now that want to be Scarlet users... what a change. In any case Scarlet users won't be pro cinematography users... good luck getting a decent cinematography job with that gear. Looks cool for low budget indies though.
 
Ditch the slogan

Ditch the slogan

Its about time RED rendered the slogan itself obsolete.

Lawyers could argue on the definition and use of the word "obsolete", but what is beyond argument is that many RED one buyers interpreted the slogan to mean that their purchase was future proof.

A (curiously) rare example of where RED has not being in touch with the karma/thoughts/desires of its customers.

I find it surprising that they continue to use it.

It begs the question that if the new "modular" kit is truly modular it will work with those cameras that are not obsolescent, like RED one.. right?


Mike Brennan
 
I'm sorry, did I miss something? I was just looking at some incredible footage I just shot with my Red One. Well, at least I thought they were incredible. Damn, now I have to trash them because they're obsolete. :bleh:
 
Mickjoebill said:
It begs the question that if the new "modular" kit is truly modular it will work with those cameras that are not obsolescent, like RED one.. right?


Mike Brennan
Click to expand...

I think that really gets to the point for many Red One owners. Owning a Red One does not get you into the upgrade without a huge expenditure in a complete new system (way more than the $17,500 trade in).

Scarlet and Epic are not (outside of shared sensor) the same camera system and do not share the modularity. Beyond being able to upgrade the chip, there appears to be no connection of the Red One to the new system of cameras at Red.

So yes, I'll probably upgrade the chip in my Red One...but then I'm done. I can't go beyond that in staying with the program with Red...I will be obsolete with Red One...eventually...because I just can't afford, especially in this current market, to purchase a whole new system, that has not been adapted to accept the Red One.

I don't want anything free BTW. I just wanted to be able to stay in the program with my Red One. The new camera systems do not allow that.

Also I wanted to mention that I think Reds new modular camera systems are very cool and exceptionally promising. And I'm sure will make great waves in the industry.
 
getken said:
I think that really gets to the point for many Red One owners. Owning a Red One does not get you into the upgrade without a huge expenditure in a complete new system (way more than the $17,500 trade in).

Scarlet and Epic are not (outside of shared sensor) the same camera system and do not share the modularity. Beyond being able to upgrade the chip, there appears to be no connection of the Red One to the new system of cameras at Red.

So yes, I'll probably upgrade the chip in my Red One...but then I'm done. I can't go beyond that in staying with the program with Red...I will be obsolete with Red One...eventually...because I just can't afford, especially in this current market, to purchase a whole new system, that has not been adapted to accept the Red One.

I don't want anything free BTW. I just wanted to be able to stay in the program with my Red One. The new camera systems do not allow that.

Also I wanted to mention that I think Reds new modular camera systems are very cool and exceptionally promising. And I'm sure will make great waves in the industry.
Click to expand...

getken, it sounds like you think that at some point your camera will simply not be viable for shooting as the DSMC SYSTEM continues to progress. I see it differently. If you can put some sort of cool disguise on the camera so no one can see you are shooting with one of those old "antique R1s" you will still be able to fool 'em with the footage.
 
We've all heard the "its a great camera now" and "its not about having the latest and greatest" yadiyadayada. It comes down to lookin out for your investment. I'm sure the people who are upset wont stop making money with their RED (now) but when it comes time to sell, how much a loss will they take? I hope not Abu's prediction, but it will certainly be significant. And yeah, if you couldnt afford EPIC why would you sell anyway right? But then who thought Scarlet would bleed into R1 territory? Ok so there are limitations that separate the three but to say a 6k ff35 is in a lower league? i dunno.

IMO, if you don't want to take a loss then you WILL find a way to upgrade to EPIC. I remember telling my business partner before the big announcement "Watch we get cornered into an EPIC." That's pretty much what happened. I wouldn't say we can afford it, but I'd rather make big sacrifices to make it happen than take a big hit on resale.

As far as the Mysterium X upgrade, my guess it will be priced in similarly in the sense that you'd be dumb not to just step up to a base model EPIC. Cause say you upgrade your R1 to Mysterium X and then later want to trade up for EPIC. It's not like you'll get "X"tra credit (haha sorry that was cheesy) for your mxRED ONE.

Just some thoughts as an owner, but I'm glad there is a great option on the higher end. I'd better start working harder this next year to make shiz happen. :weight_lift:
 
arrik said:
IMO, if you don't want to take a loss then you WILL find a way to upgrade to EPIC. I remember telling my business partner before the big announcement "Watch we get cornered into an EPIC." That's pretty much what happened. I wouldn't say we can afford it, but I'd rather make big sacrifices to make it happen than take a big hit on resale.
Click to expand...

Its time some of you guys start giving blood... some places still pay for it. There's also the human experiment route to go for some extra cash.
 
arrik said:
As far as the Mysterium X upgrade, my guess it will be priced in similarly in the sense that you'd be dumb not to just step up to a base model EPIC. Cause say you upgrade your R1 to Mysterium X and then later want to trade up for EPIC. It's not like you'll get "X"tra credit (haha sorry that was cheesy) for your mxRED ONE.

Just some thoughts as an owner, but I'm glad there is a great option on the higher end. I'd better start working harder this next year to make shiz happen. :weight_lift:
Click to expand...

I'd like to think the price for a Red One Mysterium X upgrade isn't so high that you should just buy an Epic. That wouldn't make any sense. I don't know what these sensors cost Red to buy in huge volume, nor what the profit margin needs to be on them. But once you've already invested in the early camera and a lot of accessories, many of which were prototypes in some way, then it stands to some reason that a sensor upgrade is much more economical than buying a whole new camera system.
 
True that, Sean. I guess I should say best be sure we're not going the EPIC route anyway and have paid for the myserium X sensor when the R1 credit will remain the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top