The big choice: Epic S35 or FF35...

[Leo Ticheli]

At first blush the trade in choice for me was obviously the Epic S35; I need the high frame rates and use PL Mount lenses.

Now I'm not so sure that the Epic FF35 is not the better choice because of the Monstro sensor with it's promised 13+ stops of DR, but only if the windowed sensor for PL lens coverage will yield the same DR.

Also, are there any other disadvantages to using the FF35 with PL lenses?

Can anyone at Red shed light on this? Since the Epic FF35 is quite a bit more expensive, I'd like to weigh the difference in my planning.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Also, are there any other disadvantages to using the FF35 with PL lenses?

Good question I'm now looking at the FF35 has my upgrade path too and wondering the same..

 

[cinemano]

I know.. all these choices are mind boggling.. now that the Scarlet has a lens mount option i cant even decide between scarlet or EPIC buaah wonder it the 5K scarlet has lower quality to the 5K epic?? they have the same sensor no?

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I know.. all these choices are mind boggling.. now that the Scarlet has a lens mount option i cant even decide between scarlet or EPIC buaah wonder it the 5K scarlet has lower quality to the 5K epic?? they have the same sensor no?

Just lower frame rates from what Jim posted. More and more the low end Epic does not seem like a viable option for me. Same mysterium sensor, 11 stops instead of 13, lower resolution, not full frame.... screw that its a Scarlet on steroids.

 

[JohnF]

It appears to be that EPICs have improved data rates=less compression=improved picture.

Though a S35 windowed EPIC FF35 appears to give a slightly lower resolution when running a 30x15 PL window than the EPIC S35 (ATM).

JohnF

 

[Mark Pugh]

Just lower frame rates from what Jim posted. More and more the low end Epic does not seem like a viable option for me. Same mysterium sensor, 11 stops instead of 13, lower resolution, not full frame.... screw that its a Scarlet on steroids.

Actually the lower-end epic will have higher resolution for a given sensor area, as it's pixels are smaller - 5.4 microns, as opposed to 6 microns for the monstro models.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

will have higher resolution for a given sensor area

I guess you are right but not higher resolution over all. The Scarlet is 24MP and the wimpy Epic is 13.8MP. The Scarlet FF35 is 36 x 24mm and the wimpy Epic is 30x15mm. The pixel dimensions for the wimpy Epic are 5120 x 2700 and the Scarlet is 6000 x 4000.

 

[Emery Wells]

At first blush the trade in choice for me was obviously the Epic S35; I need the high frame rates and use PL Mount lenses.

Now I'm not so sure that the Epic FF35 is not the better choice because of the Monstro sensor with it's promised 13+ stops of DR, but only if the windowed sensor for PL lens coverage will yield the same DR.

Also, are there any other disadvantages to using the FF35 with PL lenses?

Can anyone at Red shed light on this? Since the Epic FF35 is quite a bit more expensive, I'd like to weigh the difference in my planning.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

Why would DR change when using a windowed portion of the sensor?

 

[Harva Raj]

my pure speculation is, after the mysterium sensor in red one in 2007-2008, red's plan for 2009 is the mysterium x sensor, and for 2010 is the monstro sensor. (i think) the monstro sensor doesn't even exist ..... the spects are subjected to change.. and red will test and select the best and suitable sensor for digital filmmaking from range of sensor from the same company and just name that sensor as monstro..

the FF35 epic and scarlet will only be out april/may 2010 around NAB (my pure guess)
...so we have a lot of time...


you can use anamorphic lens and carrion LCD to unsqueeze and monitor the squeezed footage...


Good (anamorphic) shooting and best regards,

sky1walker

 

[Mark Pugh]

Does anyone know - will the Epics be allowed to run at Redcode 42?

 

[JanneJansson]

Does anyone know - will the Epics be allowed to run at Redcode 42?

As I understood what Jim said, Epic can do it all. no limits. Just that first the S35 will be made and released, then some months later the FF35 will be released with yet another better sensor.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

At first blush the trade in choice for me was obviously the Epic S35; I need the high frame rates and use PL Mount lenses.

Now I'm not so sure that the Epic FF35 is not the better choice because of the Monstro sensor with it's promised 13+ stops of DR, but only if the windowed sensor for PL lens coverage will yield the same DR.

Also, are there any other disadvantages to using the FF35 with PL lenses?

Can anyone at Red shed light on this? Since the Epic FF35 is quite a bit more expensive, I'd like to weigh the difference in my planning.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

Hey Leo -

The answer is IMO ... upgrade to an Epic S35.

There could easily be a delay for the MONSTRO sensor, and you'll want to get into the Epic as fast as possible.

Now ... if we knew 100% that the FF35 would be only 3 months after the S35 - the choice is a bit tougher. But we can't know 100% ... because most likely ... RED doesn't know 100%. They are just busting their ass full steam ahead.

It also depends what you do with your camera. The Red One makes amazing pictures if you know what you are doing. We are all going to see some amazing films shot on Red One.

But technology will never stop improving. Get into the EPIC system ASAP and grow with it.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

There could easily be a delay for the MONSTRO sensor, and you'll want to get into the Epic as fast as possible.

Would you really want to do that? What will be the upgrade path to a Monstro? Will you have to buy a 35k brain with no trade-in value?

 

[Darren Orange]

Would you really want to do that? What will be the upgrade path to a Monstro? Will you have to buy a 35k brain with no trade-in value?

This is a good question. Maybe RED has thought about this?

 

[JanneJansson]

I'm in line for a S35 and (hopefully) upgrading to FF35 some day.

 

[Leo Ticheli]

New cabinet post...

New cabinet post...

Hey Leo -

The answer is IMO ... upgrade to an Epic S35.

There could easily be a delay for the MONSTRO sensor, and you'll want to get into the Epic as fast as possible.

Now ... if we knew 100% that the FF35 would be only 3 months after the S35 - the choice is a bit tougher. But we can't know 100% ... because most likely ... RED doesn't know 100%. They are just busting their ass full steam ahead.

It also depends what you do with your camera. The Red One makes amazing pictures if you know what you are doing. We are all going to see some amazing films shot on Red One.

But technology will never stop improving. Get into the EPIC system ASAP and grow with it.

Thank you, Mark,

I think President Obama should appoint you to a new cabinet post, Secretary of Film Making.

While we do have a lot of smart cookies here at RedUser, you're the tops; I never pass on one of your posts.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Would you really want to do that? What will be the upgrade path to a Monstro? Will you have to buy a 35k brain with no trade-in value?

Yes. We will upgrade every Red One we have to S35.

We will ROI S35s extremely quickly, possibly even before they release FF35

Then we will buy FF35s.

Remember, lots of folks laughed at us back in the day and we ROI'd two cameras in under 90 days.

I'm in this for the whole ride until I retire.

Buy the S35 and rent the FF35 Brain from Offhollywood.

Jim is selling BRAINS and we're BUYING.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Buy the S35 and rent the FF35 Brain from Offhollywood.

HaHa... why not keep working with a perfectly good RED One until you can afford to upgrade to the FF35? Who knows when the S35 will be released... it seems like RED is on the ball now... I would play it safe unless you got deep pockets like Offhollywood. Being stuck with an S35 and no trade-in value to a Monstro would suck. That would be around a 27.5k mole hill to climb. The S35 is not much different from a RED One.. I don't see why anyone would want to buy into it.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I would play it safe unless you got deep pockets like Offhollywood. Being stuck with an S35 and no trade-in value to a Monstro would suck. That would be around a 27.5k mole hill to climb.

You play it how you want ... and I'll play it how I want.

Contrary to popular belief ... you don't need deep pockets.

You need balls.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

You play it how you want ... and I'll play it how I want.

Contrary to popular belief ... you don't need deep pockets.

You need balls.

Yeah that's all good when you have more money to play with. I see a lot of people that got their balls snipped crying on here about not being capable of upgrading to an Epic. Yeah they sure had balls when they bought into an R1. Only to be delayed by accessories back order and an overly saturated market.