Things to be careful with RED....

[Chris Parker]

RED Team,

To start with, I am absolutely floored with today's announcements. Going through Jim's post was almost better than Christmas morning when I was 11 and went downstairs to find a new Intellivision. whoa, that day rocked.

The only question I have is regarding formats. There is a whole lot of 35mm glass in the world, and it often drives what camera formats are used. I would say that is one of the big factors in RED ONE's original success. It used off-the-shelf PL mount 35mm lenses.

When I see all these new size sensors and new formats, it scares me a little. What is FF35? Is that equivalent to anamorphic? If so, that is a good thing in my opinion. If you are developing entirely new formats, that may also be good, but it may not be. As we all know, glass takes much more time to produce than a camera. Quality glass that is. I guess all I am asking is, can you explain to me how the world full of PL mount 35mm glass will work on each new brain? Or what lensing do you foresee being most commonly utilized with each new brain?

Also, my only other concern is RED advancing too quickly! Don't leave the post workflow too far in your dust. Let them keep up. This has been the biggest thorn in RED ONE's side thus far. I know, I know, RED ONE's skin is thick enough to withstand this thorn, and succeed in its spite, but still, we are now on the verge of a post workflow breakthrough with the ONE. And that will encourage more and more high end users to adopt this format over film next year.

If all these new formats, sizes, and codec speeds come out and leave post workflow in the dust, that won't help. That said, I am a FULL, 110% supporter of the higher bit-rate RedCode shooting codecs I am seeing in your newly announced specs. That is AMAZING. Again, I guess I am just asking for you to explain to me how you foresee post software fitting into these new products in the near term. Ideally, REDCode would become almost a de-facto norm in post software. As in, 'of course our software works natively with REDCode.' This would indeed be a bigger announcement than any new camera.

I feel I should end this post by saying that if there is one thing I have learned over the past two years, it is now to have total confidence in the RED team. I question these things because I want answers, not because I doubt the RED team has considered this. They are truly leading the way from a film-based shooting world, to a digital based shooting world, and they are visionaries.

Oh, and by the way, that 3D RIG Jim??!!?? Is that a camera, or are you building a prototype robot? That thing is fucking nuts, and I want one!

 

[Andrew M.]

Adobe can contribute here a lot and ride the wave of revolution in resolution with the RED together.

If it will be the case, and it looks like it will, I do not wary about future of RED post.
As to the new formats, the whole RED thing and digital workflow is new and is just starting from scratch.

Most producers will switch to this new workflow soon, scrapping the old equipment and buying the new one.

If only RED will be ready with all new format lenses in sufficient supply quantities, renting or buying the whole set will go smooth. Investment in the old lenses will bring good returns for the next 10 years or so when old technology will be slowly fading out.

 

[Pierce Cook]

FF35 is Full Frame 35. Like in high-end digital still cameras. Equivalent to a... full frame (so a height difference) of 35mm film, versus super 35mm (S35 in RED terms), which is wide, but not as much vertical res.

I may be slightly off in my explanation, but thats the idea. Not a new format (there, at least... 28k is a new format. Hahaha... wow).

 

[Chris Parker]

ok. cool. i actually just realized (through the help of another thread) that you could easily use S35mm lenses on the FF35 sensor, and just select your format accordingly. Although RED does not (yet) list PL mount on the options of this, they will I am sure, and make it a menu selectible format setting for those who want to shoot with S35 lenses on that brain....

 

[CK Olsen]

some stuff will still share...

some stuff will still share...

You just gotta play smart moving forward... Displays will work on both, CF should work on both... Red Drives Should work on both, and if you have a heavy lens investment, just match to your new body design... I already share my lenses with my still camera, so my investment pays off in both still and motion... and as I see it, this new approach gives me a future hybrid option I didn't have before, so I'm pretty cool with this.

Oh. And I get to shoot with my Red One TODAY, which is by far the best part.

 

[Christian Tanner]

ff35

ff35

ff35 - full frame 35 - is the format regular 35mm slr cameras use. same neg, but turned sideways - so in other words - the motion pictures neg width is the still camera negs height.

by the way that's also why still camera lenses are labeled differently. a 50mm stills lens isn't the equivalent of a 50mm motion picture lens.

so that's actually great news as you will be able to use those old lenses you (or your dad) bought for that nikon fm1 back in the analog days...

tanner

 

[Paul Hazlett]

Adobe can contribute here a lot and ride the wave of revolution in resolution with the RED together.

If it will be the case, and it looks like it will, I do not wary about future of RED post.
As to the new formats, the whole RED thing and digital workflow is new and is just starting from scratch.

Most producers will switch to this new workflow soon, scrapping the old equipment and buying the new one.

If only RED will be ready with all new format lenses in sufficient supply quantities, renting or buying the whole set will go smooth. Investment in the old lenses will bring good returns for the next 10 years or so when old technology will be slowly fading out.

Andrew has a point about adobe here. If the line of adobe products truly are
resolution independent then we should be able to edit any new format in a downrezed capacity and spit it out at any other rez for use in large signage displays, IMAX, projecting on the chrysler building, whatever..

 

[Bob England]

ff35 - full frame 35 - is the format regular 35mm slr cameras use. same neg, but turned sideways - so in other words - the motion pictures neg width is the still camera negs height.

Exactly. Full frame 35mm is 8 perf 35mm with the film running horizontally through the camera instead of vertically. Besides being the standard for 35mm still cameras (and now top-of-the-line DSLRs like the Canon 5D Mk II), us old-timers remember it as VistaVision, an old Paramount Pictures widescreen format from the fifties that was resurrected by George Lucas' ILM for use in making VFX plates for the original Star Wars film.

 

[Peter Mosiman]

I am very glad that Adobe will be working right along side with RED. What is the current situation with RED and Apple? Is there any "official" word about this yet RED team?

 

[Deanan]

The post workflow is advancing on many fronts quietly. Some things take time to come up to the surface but we can assure that work on post workflow continues full steam ahead.

 

[Brian Broz]

I for one would be far more interested in faster lenses than more resolution.
For every single rental inquiry (I've had), the DP is looking for faster than a 2.8 lens.

 

[Simon Baechler]

What mount do they use on the Arri 765?
Now would be a good time for Panavision to jump on the Red waggon. They have some decent old 65mm lenses lying around that could be used well on the FF35mm camera. And this time it is truly hand holdable...

 

[Ido Karilla]

The post workflow is advancing on many fronts quietly. Some things take time to come up to the surface but we can assure that work on post workflow continues full steam ahead.

As the ones trying to give services to your customers at the post stage we need to hear that more often, and some teasing would be appriciated.

Thanks for everything you are doing.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

2:1 Anamorphic

2:1 Anamorphic

What is a strong possibility is that if one has the FF Epic there could be a in camera crop to 1.19:1 on the FF sensor so one could use PL Anamorphic lenses and create a 2:38 widescreen image.

Think of all those Hawk lenses and if there was a PV mount all those C series and E series PV Anamorphic lenses that would produce beautiful BOCA!

 

[Harry Clark]

It's a slightly larger version of the regular PL mount, but I think they still call it PL ("PL-Max" comes to mind; I can't really remember)
I've done exactly three 65mm jobs in my entire career: one with an older Panavision (converted Mitchell) 65mm camera, and two with the 765. Each painful in their own way...
But when you look through that finder, it IS magic.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[David Wyatt]

Would 65mm lenses cover the 645 Epic (although a PL mount isn't mentioned in the manual...might be an idea though?). Looks like Red are also making their own lenses for this format too...("to be announced")

 

[Ronald Reddick]

Any medium format camera lenses from the still industry will, and hassablad and Mimaya have some fantastic fast glass. I have a 500mm f2.8 that is wonderful, large but an awesome lens. So I think we all need to push Red to give us some options to use the Hassablabd, Mimaya RB and RZ glass (WHich is 6x7) and their 645 glass with the right mounts. Hugh selection of lenes, 18mm f1.4, 28mm, 50, 75, the list goes on

Ron

 

[Ronald Reddick]

Jim,
who do I contact in R&D to get the mount distance from front of the ff35 to the sensor. I can prototype the mount for the RZ Glass then and send to you guys to test with some glass of mine. You can PM me.

Ron