What Red camera is best for filming movies?

[FREUDENBERG_FILMS]

I'm tossing up between a Red Scarlet 2/3 or the Red Scarlet S35.

My question is will the 2/3 Red be up to the challenge to produce awesome images for television movies and the silver screen?

Or would the Red S35 be the best beast of burden?

I've done a little research and this is what I found out.

To advance one needs to look at the pioneers of the past to get an idea for the future.

George Lucas is the guy I looked to because I was quite happy with the images shot for Star Wars the attack of the clones (SWAOTC) and he was the pioneer with the vision for a digital future.

The camera used on set of SWAOTC was the Sony CineAlta HDW-F900. This camera has the ability to shoot at various frame rates including 24fps and has a resolution of up to 1920 by 1080 pixels. The film was cropped to a 2.35:1 aspect ratio from its native 16:9 frame. As a result only 817 of the 1080 vertical pixels were actually used.

Based on this information and the knowledge that the movie was shot at 2K would I be able to shot the same type of footage quality but shot on the Red 2/3 at its 3K rating?

But then there is another Delmar.

Most filmmakers are pushing for 4K to be the standard in film making for the silver screen and digital projection so will 3K be able to handle what the future holds?

Does it all come down to chip size or the glass used on the front of the camera? Lest say we used the same glass on the front on a HD-900 and a Red 2/3 scarlet. Would the footage be the same?

The Sony HD-900F which was used on the Star Wars revenge of the Sith (SWROTS) uses 3 2/3 CCD chips 2.1 million Pixels each CCD totaling 6.3 million pixels in total for all CCD's.

Does the 2/3 RED have the same image quality as the HD-900F using the Mysterium-X 10.1X 5.35 mm sensor? Or would the S35 Red cam have the better chip set to match the HD-900F? Or neither?

Has anyone though of this?

Whats your ideas on this subject?

:detective2:

 

[JanneJansson]

The Epic FF35 is an Arri killer.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

Red One looks very good at 3k on a large screen, does that help?

Stephen

 

[Stephen Williams]

The Epic FF35 is an Arri killer.

Hi,

Why? As yet there are very few motion picture lenses available, VV DOF is a pain in the ass to light, my money is on S35.

Stephen

 

[FREUDENBERG_FILMS]

Yes and at $35k is a repayment killer also for me right now.
I'm currently an experimental film/HD maker and do not make much money from my current camera the HVX200.

I guess I want to know is can I get the same sort of image quality from a 2/3 Red or S35 as the images on a HD-900 / HD-900F?

The S35 looks like it has a bigger chip then the Redone so would this be the better camera? Or is it an over kill?

Cheers

 

[JanneJansson]

Hi,

Why? As yet there are very few motion picture lenses available, VV DOF is a pain in the ass to light, my money is on S35.

Stephen

Just looking at the lineup, and trying to figure out, what brain is intended to what consumer group.

Just by the logic that big budget jobs, want maximum quality, and that the Epic FF35 is the best "film brain". The Epic 645 seems like an Hassleblad replacement cam.


..on the other hand. The more I look, the more I think the FF35 is an odd standard. I'm going more to the S35 to be my best bet. Seems intended for red lenses be used with FF35 that take advantage of the hole sensor area.

 

[FREUDENBERG_FILMS]

The S35 has a larger sensor then the Redone. I wonder if the quality will be as good or better then the Redone.

I'm sure this will be tested with the first owners of the S35 and 2/3 red against the Redone.

If the S35 is better image then the Redone I will properly buy that and put some nice glass on front.

Has the RED team set up any type of side by side comparison for there new products?

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Has the RED team set up any type of side by side comparison for there new products?

they dont exist yet

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Mysterium-X is a real option.

There are two options:

1. Upgrade your R1 to Mysterium-X (S35)

2. Trade your R1 to Epic S35.

Monstro FF35, 645 and 617 are coming after that, 2010... when all that M-X get improved.

Scarlet S35 is cut up version of both.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Hi,

Why? As yet there are very few motion picture lenses available, VV DOF is a pain in the ass to light, my money is on S35.

Stephen

Mullen mentioned, if I recall correctly, that Canon and Nikon FF35mm glass could be rehoused for cinema work without too much trouble. You might want to be careful before deciding where to put all that money of yours.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Mullen mentioned, if I recall correctly, that Canon and Nikon FF35mm glass could be rehoused for cinema work without too much trouble. You might want to be careful before deciding where to put all that money of yours.

Hi,

Whilst still lenses could be rehoused, there are not enough lenses of the same speed to make sets. Rehousing still lenses historically cost $5-10,000 per prime to do properly. There are several sets of Van Diemen converted Leica lenses for sale as we speak.

Stephen

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi,

Whilst still lenses could be rehoused, there are not enough lenses of the same speed to make sets. Rehousing still lenses historically cost $5-10,000 per prime to do properly. There are several sets of Van Diemen converted Leica lenses for sale as we speak.

Stephen

Then Leica is jumping to make a serial of Noctilux T1 cine lenses for the industry.

If you remember well we were talking last year about that Jim should join Leica Cinema GmbH in Zürich.

 

[jpp]

I'll regret putting my foot in, as usual, but the answer to your question is simple: the best camera for filming movies is the camera you can afford to make films with. If that camera happens to be the HVX200 you currently own, what's stopping you? Successful films have been shot with far worse equipment.

And if/when the time comes to buy a Red, you'll be able to sleep soundly in the knowledge that you made the right choice, whatever it might be, because your choice of camera will have no effect on the eventual fortunes, commercial or artistic, of any films you make -- camera specs taking a distant fifth in importance, behind lighting, production design, locations and sound.

Unless you have the production resources of your reference production (Star Wars), why give yourself an ulcer? The choice of camera, lacking those other resources, won't matter in the slightest on a dramatic project.

 

[Dj Joofa]

The choice of camera, lacking those other resources, won't matter in the slightest on a dramatic project.

I think sound is a very important but neglected part of filmmaking at a small budget. Given a choice among average picture quality and great sound vs. great picture quality but unstable/lousy sound, the impression I have is that people associate better production values to average picture quality but great sound.

 

[jpp]

I think sound is a very important but neglected part of filmmaking at a small budget. Given a choice among average picture quality and great sound vs. great picture quality but unstable/lousy sound, the impression I have is that people associate better production values to average picture quality but great sound.

It won't give much comfort to anyone drawn to film for its visual qualities and excitements, as most of us are, but audiences have far greater tolerance for bad images, than for bad sound. Poor exposure, out-of-focus material, aliasing, clipping at both ends, pixelization -- people will put up with it without complaint.

But bad or distorted sound will kill a production instantly.

Which is why these camera obsessions seem so odd, at times, coming from filmmakers with very limited resources.....

 

[Dj Joofa]

But bad or distorted sound will kill a production instantly.

Which is why these camera obsessions seem so odd, at times, coming from filmmakers with very limited resources.....

Agree with you. There are other issues that are much more off putting than a a saturated/clipped white, 4K vs 2k, etc. For e.g., in some of our own studies audio-video sync was very important. Can't overemphasize how much people get put off by an audio-video sync that was off by a certain magical number.

 

[Christian Tanner]

freudenberg_films - you might want to take a closer look at star wars attack of the clones that you where refering to. the amount of cg in that pic is missleading - i always thought. observing the bit of actors and props that where actually shot - not computer generated - where interestingly unsofisticated looking.

in fact, lucas stated (can't recall the source anymore though) after shooting the new star wars movies, that he wouldn't necesarily shoot everything on digital cameras anymore but choose the right format for each occasion.

tanner

 

[Stuart English]

Which camera?

Which camera?

Sounds like a Scarlet 2/3" or S35 would be ideal products.

Which is better for you may be a function of your budget to purchase or buy the supporting lenses.

The RED ONE does have distinct advantages though, and another option would be to rent one of those.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Something to keep in mind:

Most of what is seen in Star Wars Episode II is actually CG backgrounds and special effects. I wouldn't use that particular movie as a good example of how a 2/3" camera will look on the big screen, because it's mostly computer animation.

A better reference would be a movie like Once Upon A Time In Mexico. Robert Rodriguez used the F900 (or was it the 950?), and it looked pretty darn good. Other good reference movies are Zodiac, and the Planet Earth documentary.

I would expect the 2/3" Scarlet to deliver better results, provided that the footage is well lit, composed, etc...

 

[Ryan Patch]

Also keep in mind that with the different sensor size, it's not really about the "k"s of resolution. Those are nice, but as you observed, 2k is decent.

What you must realize is that a 2/3" sensor will give you different depth of field results because of the different lenses that you must use on that sensor size to achieve a specific field of view. Also, the other features (such as slow motion, time lapse, anamorphic support, portability, etc) should come into play for you.