Creative freedom?

[Christoffer Glans]

Trying to figure out the best workflow for editing a feature film on Avid or FCP for that matter created some questions in my mind.

Yes, you can conform in redcine, but how much? If it's only about in and outs and clean cuts then fine, it's ok. But editing is about more things, it's about working with audio and putting some dialogue out of place off-screen. And not to mentrion all the fade to black and crossfades.

When editing offline I'm using all of these things and fades are the most common. These stick with the EDL when exporting but I cannot see RedCine being able to manage fades or audio for that matter. So when I edit and do a crossfade between two scenes, is that going to disapear when they online everything?

 

[Jörgen Persson]

Trying to figure out the best workflow for editing a feature film on Avid or FCP for that matter created some questions in my mind.

Yes, you can conform in redcine, but how much? If it's only about in and outs and clean cuts then fine, it's ok. But editing is about more things, it's about working with audio and putting some dialogue out of place off-screen. And not to mentrion all the fade to black and crossfades.

When editing offline I'm using all of these things and fades are the most common. These stick with the EDL when exporting but I cannot see RedCine being able to manage fades or audio for that matter. So when I edit and do a crossfade between two scenes, is that going to disapear when they online everything?

There are some basic things you need to realize before you continue you Red workflow crusade...

1. Redcine is not an online application. It converts Red files into something you use for offline or online.
2. Crimson, Monkey Extract or cineXML are just tools that make sure you just render out media files that's being used in the final edit and that's about it. These are not online applications either.
3. Crimson can't be used for Avid XML (yet) so you need to use either cineXML or Monkey Extract if you use Metacheater for the offline files.

The best advice I can give you (aside from wearing sun screen) is to find a post supervisor with experience of the Red workflow for Avid.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Thing is that the supervisors only have knowledge of FCP and the fear of Avid makes them not know anything about that kind of workflow.

Either way, how can I edit offline like when working with 35mm and know that onlining will be exact like my offline edit? Not being able to do a serious offline to online edit is just not professionally workable.

As an editor I can't work with the big 4K files, I need smaller files that are then put together into the master-edit before grading and special effects. With this workflow it means that I can't edit more then in's and out's. I can't do dissolves or fades, I can't do anything an editor needs to be able to do.

This isn't about supervising, this is about offline to online. All I do in offline should stay the same into the onlineedit. The thing is about the transfer between them.

If I use metacheater and then edit autosynced DV files in offline, I'm going to do more then in's and out's.

So, when doing a dissolve, will the in's and out's of the two images be set at the dissolve length and then in online, the dissolve is added based on the XML or EDL from the offline? Is redcine going to export DPX files and respect the dissolves or will it ignore the dissolves and create edits that are too short.

 

[Jörgen Persson]

Thing is that the supervisors only have knowledge of FCP and the fear of Avid makes them not know anything about that kind of workflow.

Either way, how can I edit offline like when working with 35mm and know that onlining will be exact like my offline edit? Not being able to do a serious offline to online edit is just not professionally workable.

As an editor I can't work with the big 4K files, I need smaller files that are then put together into the master-edit before grading and special effects. With this workflow it means that I can't edit more then in's and out's. I can't do dissolves or fades, I can't do anything an editor needs to be able to do.

This isn't about supervising, this is about offline to online. All I do in offline should stay the same into the onlineedit. The thing is about the transfer between them.

If I use metacheater and then edit autosynced DV files in offline, I'm going to do more then in's and out's.

So, when doing a dissolve, will the in's and out's of the two images be set at the dissolve length and then in online, the dissolve is added based on the XML or EDL from the offline? Is redcine going to export DPX files and respect the dissolves or will it ignore the dissolves and create edits that are too short.

You are making things way too complicated.

1. Use Metacheater to create ALEs for the offline files.
2. Edit the movie.
3. Export a Filmscribe XML to cineXML (for example) and open the project in Redcine.
4. Render DPX sequences of the used footage in Redcine. Dissolves will be accounted for.
5. Bring the DPX files on a large Harddrive to a DI suite.

DI:
If you use Avid DS 10 for online you can export an AFE and relink to the DPX files. (Recommended)
Otherwise you can export an EDL for all other major finishing tools to relink to the DPX sequences. But any effects in the offline (not dissolves) needs to be manually recreated.

Then colorgrade the footage and print to film or master to tape.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

If you remove a dissolve when editing, there's a clean in and out cut. Will redcine render out dpx's according to that clean cut or based on the dissolve, meaning, using in's and out's that are way off so that the dissolve will work in online-editing?

This is what I'm talking about. Effects needs to be recreated, but they do not interfere with the amount of dpx's in a scene. A dissolve uses a cut but images before and after that are mixed togehter. The samse goes for mixing footage together. Will the dpx's created be both so it can be mixed together in online?

 

[Jörgen Persson]

If you remove a dissolve when editing, there's a clean in and out cut. Will redcine render out dpx's according to that clean cut or based on the dissolve, meaning, using in's and out's that are way off so that the dissolve will work in online-editing?

This is what I'm talking about. Effects needs to be recreated, but they do not interfere with the amount of dpx's in a scene. A dissolve uses a cut but images before and after that are mixed togehter. The samse goes for mixing footage together. Will the dpx's created be both so it can be mixed together in online?

EDLs and XMLs will account for the extra footage needed to create the dissolve in the online session.

The only thing you need to do is to prepare the footage with an ALE from Metacheater before you edit. Then you edit like you're used to. No need to think about the online until it's time.