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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BBC's Red Technical hold?

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FELIPE.AGUILAR

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Hello, I was lined up to shoot a documentary next month with my red. The project is being co-produced by the BBC.
The producers of the project told me today that it was a no go with my camera as the BBC had some problems with another documentary shot on Red, and the camera had been put on a technical hold for the network.
I asked them to give more details, and they should get back to me soon...I'll post anything that comes my way.
In the mean time I wanted to ask if someone out there knows anything about this issue.
Take care,
ƒ
 
post post post...

The workflow with RED is the biggest worry with clients.

The sooner developers bring out RED post tools that work soothly the better.

Being tied to Assimilate seems the worst thing to happen to the REDOne having to purchase a $80k software package to work with a $18k camera.

RED needs to be developing their own software tools that take a edit from start to finish that is EDL support, having to depend on Assimilate to develop REDCine is no good when they want to sell Scratch seats.

Working with footage quickly and efficiently in a smooth pipeline overrules picture quality when comparing to proven pipelines that have delivered past project time and time again.

Hopefully we'll see Apple step up and the fruits of RED partnership with them.

For all us RED users this needs to happen quickly, very quickly.
 
I am too tired of figuring out a post workflow that doenst look like a maze. But at this point I think its a matter of time until we know something for certain with the adobe crew. Then it will be a different story. Does anyone work or is close to someone in the BBC that could give us a hint on whats going on for sure? I hate this gossip :)
 
roryhinds said:
post post post...

The workflow with RED is the biggest worry with clients.

The sooner developers bring out RED post tools that work soothly the better.

Being tied to Assimilate seems the worst thing to happen to the REDOne having to purchase a $80k software package to work with a $18k camera.

RED needs to be developing their own software tools that take a edit from start to finish that is EDL support, having to depend on Assimilate to develop REDCine is no good when they want to sell Scratch seats.

Working with footage quickly and efficiently in a smooth pipeline overrules picture quality when comparing to proven pipelines that have delivered past project time and time again.

Hopefully we'll see Apple step up and the fruits of RED partnership with them.

For all us RED users this needs to happen quickly, very quickly.
Click to expand...

Agreed but workflow is all to any production and is is clearly a worry. Im not sure assimilate is the answer here for the majority of work though it is one option. If a Prores workflow can be adopted, Im not saying it is right for every production but it can work for some then Color or Baselight (via data transfer of a layered timeline) may be other possible options, Im sure there's several other options too. The only comment I've heard is the camera produces too much data which seems a very curios comment in this day and age, any modern post system should be able to handle that very easily.

Dave
UK
 
Ill ask some contacts I know to see if they can comment and leave a post here tomorrow.

Dave
UK
 
We're mid way through shooting a BBC documentary on Red and we've had NO problems. This is for SD delivery, the post is OUR headache NOT the BBC's and everything is running smoothly so far!!!

I can understand the BBC's reluctance to work in-house with Red at the moment due to the Post complexities but for indies I don't see why they would worry.

Scott
 
The issue I see with the Adobe workflow is Premier, in that its not used as much as Avid & FCP so having to pick up a new (old) editing tool is not the solution for many.

We need an easy solid solution from RED to work with Avid & FCP. REDCine was said to be this solid solution in the beginning marketing.. take your cut list and process out of RED, this was never developed as it conflicts too much with Scratch and Assimilate do all the REDCine code writing.

Working with 3rd party add ons for REDCine is a pain and hard to sell clients on the "many" step workflow where things could go wrong.

I think that post is any easy solution, simply have full r3d support in FCP & Avid - its the background contracts and deals that slow this process down.

RED have some great code writers so I see no reason they can't bring EDL support to a RED dedicated tool.
 
One reason for our ordering Red was to get the post sorted and for us to be able to support it properly. Red to me is not just the camera but the whole approach to the production technology. Handling large amounts of Data on single machines or on very large systems is just a problem of scaling. I've handled many projects that run in to 10's of Tb and its really not a problem if you plan ahead and organise appropriately. From what I know so far Red post is no more complicated than any other, in fact I far prefer it to working on Film or tape which have far more idiosyncratic problems attached to the workflow.

On Sunday I was at a local film festival showing Red in a Underwater workshop, out of about 25 delegates that I had the privilege of meeting, 6 had a Red camera ! I was very pleased about this as I hadnt expected to meet so many people who had adopted the Red. They were all independents and all were very complimentary about it, and there were no real insurmountable problems reported about the camera or post.

Dave
UK
 
I can't comment on the documentary side of the BBC but there is certainly no blanket BBC 'technical hold' on RED production. "Wallander" has been shot successfully on RED (albeit an independent production for the BBC). 4K London has been extensively involved with the BBC in-house drama department and HD research department, and although one project we were testing on eventually used a different camera, they are very keen to shoot another large-scale production on RED.
 
RED has never been an issue for independents.
Its the majors that is the concern.

Once a solid simply workflow is released and proven I'm sure a lot more major houses will be vocal about shooting & posting RED.

I think RED's strap line of "never finished, always in development" is a double edge sword. Majors want to work with a solid stable tool and not have to update over and over again.
 
I wonder whether this was an issue with HD broadcast ?

Alan Roberts made some comments about the RED camera In DVDoctor w/r to BBC testing for HD broadcast implying that the final transmission compression had problems with RED's 'grain', although also adding that it made for superb projection at 2/4K!

It was on a thread about the Canon 5D

I've not heard any official news about the BBC's test results
 
Workflow worries are the first thing people say as soon as I mention Red.
 
The majors always lag behind, its just the nature of the way things are, bigger companies are just more prudent I guess. No criticism intended at all, if your small you can be more fleet afoot.

What I do know in all of this is Red are one of the far sighted companies that helped liberate smaller production companies by putting them in a position to be able to afford and use technology that is capable of extraordinary quality to match anything else that's out there. The small guys will trail blaze ahead and be far out front for a while yet.

The biggest problem I found is not using Red or the Post kit but getting peoples head and mind set in the right place. Once that's happened its all so much easier.

Dave
Uk
 
On a side note, NatGeo have no issue with RED, its on their list of accepted HD camera sources.

Interestingly they have finally removed all HDV, and most of the lower level HD's (HVX200 etc.)
 
LilRed said:
Funny that Hollywood has an abundance of Red-made features and television in production, post, and to the audiences. What is BBC thinking?

~S
Click to expand...

True story.

Back in early 2002 I came from Raja Ampat Is (Western Papua) with 17 tapes of footage of some newly discovered (during our scientific trip) coral reefs. These reefs were found to be the most diverse in the world: over 450 species of coral and over 1250 species of fish - simply unreal. I shot a fair bit of nice footage in HDCAM format - quite innovative (and expensive) at the time of VHS and DV.

I got on the phone and spoke to a well known BBC producer:

Me: Would you like to see some footage? It is quite spectacular. It was all shot in HDCAM format.

He: What format was that?

Me: HDCAM

He: Can you spell it for me?

Me: H-D-C-A-M It's cinema quality.

He: Oh, OK, Can you send us a 16mm copy so that we could have a look?

Eventually, after 6 years (!), I sold the footage to National Geographic.
 
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